You’ve been fantasizing about quitting or changing jobs for months and now you’re ready; Making that leap doesn’t scare you, it excites you. The thought of creating something from nothing or joining a team that’s building something from the ground up has driven you to go from fantasizing to finally pulling the trigger. But there is one thing about quitting the job that puts butterflies in your stomach and gives you pause…
Convincing your spouse that now is the time.
In today’s episode, we’ll break down this uncomfortable conversation and give you a simple framework so you can have a more productive discussion with your partner.
Liz, Brett’s wife, also joins the podcast and interjects her real-life feelings and experiences from when Brett had this conversation with her.
- How to formulate the conversation to relate to your spouse’s experiences
- How to time the conversation so it doesn’t come as a surprise to your spouse
- Why you can’t simply explain your way through this conversation
As a bonus at the end of this episode, Brett and Liz use role playing to practice one permutation of this conversation so you can see how the conversation might play out.
Quick shout-out to our podcast partner LMNT. LMNT is our go-to hydration product. With no sugar and no additives, LMNT is how I manage to maintain my voice when speaking for 16 hours and traveling every other weekend of the year. Right now, they are offering you a free 8-flavor sample pack (just pay $5 shipping) if you go to drinkLMNT.com/aoc!
Today’s episode is also brought to you by Dynamic Fitness & Strength. Dynamic is our title sponsor and our go-to equipment guys. If you need anything for your home or full-sized gym- they offer the most affordable, customizable, durable equipment on the market.
Also our partner Momentous: For those looking for the cleanest, best tasting protein and supplements on the market, Momentous is my choice. Their products are for athletes as well as individuals who just want to ensure they are getting enough protein in their diet. Code: BRETT15 gets you 15% off!
Finally, we are hosting a brand new event, the Art of Coaching Speaker School this May (28-29th) in Atlanta GA. If you’re interested in improving your speaking skill for any situation or capacity, this is the place to do it. We’ll be breaking down how to create a powerful message, how to tailor it to a specific audience and make sure it’s not only heard, but understood. Check out artofcoaching.com/speaker for more!
Brett Bartholomew 00:06
Welcome to the Art Of Coaching podcast, a show aimed at getting to the core of what it takes to change attitudes, behaviors and outcomes in the weight room, boardroom classroom, and everywhere in between. I’m your host, Brett Bartholomew, I’m a performance coach, keynote speaker, and the author of the book Conscious Coaching. But most importantly, I’m a lifelong student interested in all aspects of human behavior, and communication. I want to thank you for joining me. And now let’s dive into today’s episode.
Brett Bartholomew 00:39
All right, today we are doing something new on the podcast. We have introduced a new feature where you guys can send in questions and regardless of the theme, the topic, the problem, anything that you are dealing with, we are going to address them on the air, this is our way of trying to find more ways to give back to you.
As you guys know, we do a combination of interviews, we do solo episodes, the biggest thing is, we try to hit on points that are often swept under the rug in coaching and leadership discussions. There’s all these things that can be talked about tactically, but there is a wide variety of things that go on outside of your work environment that impact our ability to do our job, at the highest level. So today is all centered around how to have a conversation with your spouse, your partner, whatever that word means to you, whether you’re married, you’re dating or whatever, that you’re leaving your job, and you’re either starting something on your own, or you’re doing something different.
Brett Bartholomew 01:30
Now, I think many of you, and it’s gonna be a mixed audience here, because some of you might be so young into your career, you’re like, Ah, this is never going to be relevant. I love what I do as a matter of fact, I do it for free. Others are going to be like, Oh, my God, I do like what I do but you’re right, I am in this place, where I feel like there’s something else I’m supposed to be doing. But I can’t even imagine walking out on the safety and security of the salary and all these points. Wherever you’re at in your journey, I can tell you this, you are likely not going to be in the position you are right now for the rest of your life. Things change, context changes and eventually you’re going to have some kind of difficult discussion. And even if the most ardent critic believes No, I’m never going to have this discussion, I have the best deal in the world, I’m never leaving this. Here’s the thing, you might help or coach or know somebody that’s going to deal with it. But this is a very common thing.
And so this is going to be what today’s episode is all about. How do you broach this discussion? Now, I’ve lived this after being a strength coach for you know, 15, 16 years solely that I made a decision to go out and take on a really kind of a business that crosses over into multiple leadership domains with communication and social psychology, and helping people build their brand in a less slimy sleazy way. Even if it’s something that they’ve never considered in the past. I mean, the reality is, this guy’s Your reputation is your brand, it’s always gonna follow you. So whether you want to build a business or anything like that, you need to know how to create something of your own. And this is part of that, because we all need an insurance policy in what we do. And we all need other ways to express our talents. So I’m excited to dive into this.
Brett Bartholomew 03:07
Now a couple of things. Of course, I want to mention today’s sponsors, we could not do this without them. They are a huge help to us. So guys, first I want to recognize LMNT and I always try to tell you guys just how it is. I could sit here and give you some big long winded pitch. The reality is like anybody I get sick of just drinking water. Like many active people, I also get dehydrated when I’m training, when I’m traveling, anything like that. And LMNT is my go to hydration drink. I don’t need a bunch of sugar and nonsense. It’s not like I’m phobic of that stuff. But why put it in your body if you don’t need to? LMNT is no nonsense bare bones like everything we do at Art Of Coaching. They’re our trusted hydration partner. So no matter what you do, if you want something else to just flavor your water, if you need something to hydrate you, if you need somebody to help you perform better because you know, as you get deeper into your workout that you tend to fall off, LMNT can help. So make sure to go to drinkLMNT.com/aoc. Again, that’s drinkLMNT.com/aoc for your free sample pack.
Brett Bartholomew 04:15
Additionally, one of our OG sponsors, Momentous. Momentous carries a line of NSF certified supplements designed for anybody that wants to get the most out of what they do. Again, I’m not going to be BS you guys, I have a toddler, I travel, my schedule is crazy, I don’t have some ornate morning routine. But I do know I don’t get enough protein in my diet on days where I’m really busy. If I’m coaching, I have a bunch of calls, I have to do a podcast for like tomorrow, I have to get on a plane to go teach a workshop. I need things that I can throw in my bag that I can ingest easily that I can do in between meetings, calls or coaching sessions. And that is always stuff that Momentous are. So everything from fish oil, to protein to recovery, the whole deal. You can go to artofcoaching.com/partners or livemomentous.com whichever, and use code, BRETT25, that’s the number 25 and save 25% off of anything. At the very least, just reach out to LMNT and Momentous. Tell them you heard about them that you want to learn more. They’re great people, and they allow us to bring it forward to you guys for free.
Brett Bartholomew 05:18
Alright, so getting into this. How do you navigate this conversation where you have to basically tell the person that you love, that you respect, that you admire, that you partner with in life, that you’re thinking about giving up a stable income? And you know that they’re going to be worried about a wide variety of things. They may feel like, Alright, do you not have enough savings? Do you feel like what happens if you start your own business, and there’s slow periods? And this was all brought into the question today, and we’re gonna go ahead and use the name Bob just to protect their identity. But that’s exactly what Bob said. Listen, I want to convince my wife, but they’re very worried about these things or scared about retirement, that I might not be disciplined enough and putting aside money for taxes, that I might not hire a CPA, that I might just miss manage my money in general. But here’s the deal. I’m not happy in my current low paying job. And while I love the tasks that I perform, this isn’t sustainable for me, and I don’t want them to worry. So I’m going to go through some principles that you need to consider that can guide you.
Brett Bartholomew 06:19
Obviously, there’s nothing I can say, or anybody can say that can tell you how to have this perfect conversation, or what exactly what to say more specifically, to everybody in the world, that’s like me telling you guys, I can create the perfect workout for everybody or there’s a perfect answer, we don’t do a one size fits all at Art Of Coaching. But what we can do is give you principles to base these discussions off of so that you don’t screw up the relationship and you don’t screw up your approach. And I’ve also brought on my wife, somebody that I had to have this conversation with, that’s going to give her take on this and we’re going to do it from all angles. Liz, say hello.
Liz Bartholomew 06:56
Brett Bartholomew 06:57
So we’re gonna go through the principles first. You’re gonna have to deal with a little bit of a slight cough. Sorry, guys, I don’t have like a 15 person editing team, we’re always getting over something in our household due to our toddler. But I want to make sure that you get the notepad out, and let’s lock and load. So first of all, how to approach this discussion, the most important thing you have to do is recognize something very, very, very simple and straightforward. But something that can often be missed. Okay, so bear with me for a second. Right? I know you’re likely excited and somewhat scared. You understand that there’s uncertainty and doubt and all these things. But you have a vision, and you have this idea. And you’ve likely thought about it. Or hopefully, if you’re at this point, you thought about it a good amount.
And I know that there’s things that are scary for you, you know, and I do want to tell some of you that feel like no, I could never do that. Remember, it’s kind of like Nicholas Nassim Taleb said, the truth is that there, this is not for everybody. But he talks about the most addictive things to people are salary, carbohydrates, and heroin. And there is just as much to be scared of, if you’re somebody that never thinks you will leave your job as there is of leaving your job. I have a lot of friends that have described positions they were in, in the past, as golden handcuffs. So again, just playing devil’s advocate. But point being if you’ve decided that you want to leave, and you gotta have this discussion, you need to first understand, guys, to them, this might be new news, to you, this has lived inside your head for a while, like I said, even envisioned it, you may be thought about it in a ton of different ways.
Brett Bartholomew 08:38
But when you go down and break it to them, right, they’re not able to see that, they’re not able to see that and these people, you know, your partners are going to have concerns of their own, right. Now that those are compounded by the uncertainty and perhaps shock or surprise of your decision, they didn’t know you were unhappy. And if they did, they’re still going to be amplified concerns in shock. And so the principles that I want you to think about are what we could call the contextual aspects of communication. And this is really going to help you just tailor your message. And my job is to help you consider things that you maybe haven’t thought about. And then Liz is going to give her perspective. And we’ll even do some role playing to give you a true north, or at least a map of how you can navigate this.
Brett Bartholomew 09:20
So number one, as you dissect this, and many of these principles are the same in coaching, break down everything you know about your partner, right? Does your partner, you know, do they come from a family where money was an issue? What are their attitudes about money? How long have they been in their career? And I say that because you leaving your career, if they’ve only kind of been in what they’re doing a little bit or kind of getting their feet wet. You might unintentionally be putting more pressure on them where they think, Hey, I’m not setting what I’m doing. I’m uncertain with what I’m doing. And now you’re telling me that you’re bailing on me? Right? So that’s something to consider.
You have to consider their overall just views towards monry, their attitude towards money, how much do they have in savings? Are you guys in debt? What’s the timing of this? Do you know for sure that they’re not unhappy and considering a change, there’s all these unknowns, unknown unknown unknowns that you have to dive into. But with all these things, you also have to consider their drives. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, go to artofcoaching.com/whatdrivesyou, but drives really color our perceptions of the information that we get?
Brett Bartholomew 10:29
Remember, good communication is not a one way street. Everything that we hear even if you lay out the most clear message, let’s say you go up to your partner, and you say, Hey, I don’t want you to worry about what I’m about to tell you which right, then you’re gonna get them on edge. But I’m thinking about leaving my job? Well, right then they may not hear anything else you’re about to say, because all these worst case scenarios are going through their head. So you have to consider is my partner more analytical? Alright, if they are, you can kind of dampen that shock by maybe laying out that plan. Are they visual? Alright, if that’s the case, don’t just tell them about the plan, show them, share some notes. It’s not like you have to create a PowerPoint deck.
But the point is, think from their perspective, they’re going to want to know has this person thought it through? Do they have the talent? Do they have the time? Do they have the temperament? So lay that all out. So that’s my point of like, make sure that you understand what the other individual and how their perception is going to color this. I have a friend whose wife is very risk averse. Well, you know, she grew up her parents grew up in poverty, poverty. So, you know, they didn’t really have an entrepreneurial mindset towards things. So that idea, even though it’s very clear, in his mind, he’s confident is not so you know, clear with her, her family, they had to work multiple jobs, they were kind of grinders, and that’s going to influence it. And I’m sure you’ve already thought of these. But again, it doesn’t hurt to make sure you go through it.
Brett Bartholomew 10:29
Now, I want you to think about the message itself. What is it, you’re trying to say? Just saying, Hey, I think I’m leaving my job, I’m not passionate about it. You know, there’s a degree guys, no matter what people say about passion, you kind of gotta grow up, nobody’s gonna love every aspect about their job. So I don’t know that I would lead with a passionate piece, you know, then we’re going to have to do things throughout our life that we’re not always passionate about. And no matter what coffee table leadership book tells you, that’s just the reality. So I wouldn’t lead with that. I would think about leading and coloring your conversation in a way that takes them into consideration.
And maybe it’s just like, Listen, do you remember that job that you had at that one point in time where you did it, you know, to get your foot in the door, but you really didn’t love it, and it just started eating away at you. And even when you applied yourself harder and harder, it was just like you were hit with this glass ceiling that nothing was going to change. Cool. Now you’re relating. And this is along the lines of the principle that we talked about in Conscious Coaching. In my book, I say you always need to research, relate, reframe, which is similar to what I’m telling you here.
Understand your audience, understand how your message might be perceived by them, try to link something that they understand and relate to, to something you’re going through. And then you can address that perception, and then deliver that message, you know, and all this kind of marries what I’ve told you too about, you know, you want to color this with information and use a combination of rational and emotional base persuasive appeals. But I would also say this, sometimes people are really long winded.
Brett Bartholomew 10:29
And I’ll bring Liz here in a moment. But when you are thinking about what to say, think of writing it down first as a first draft or practice it however you want to do it. And it’s likely going to be long winded, because you’re going to try to hit them with the message, then you’re going to try to kind of really over communicate, you’re going to overcompensate, you’re going to tell them all the details why they shouldn’t worry bla bla bla bla bla, and you’re going to talk forever.
Think about if you did something, we do this all the time called Half Life, your message, time yourself for two minutes and try to practice out what you would say. Then do that again and give yourself one minute. Do it again, give yourself 30 seconds. Do it again and give yourself 15 seconds. And the reason you do this is because when you have shorter and shorter amounts of time, that makes you start to key in on message prioritization. And so even if you do this unconsciously, right, and you’re like, Okay, what did I just say in 15 seconds, that was awful. But success leaves clues and so do your mistakes. Whatever you chose to say or however you chose to frame it in those 15 seconds, is telling you a little bit about what’s coming naturally to you in terms of your pattern of thought. So assess that.
Say, Ah, you know, I kind of just said, Hey, I’m unhappy with my job. I’m not making much money and I’m going to be a miserable husband if I don’t leave. Oh, okay, well, that’s a lot to digest. So my point is is Half Life in your message will kind of help you assess is where your tendency to lean into certain somatic topics is. And you can say, is that the right approach? Is that not the right approach?
Brett Bartholomew 10:29
I mean, Liz, I don’t know if you remember this, but it was 2016 or no, it’s 2017. And we decided that we were going to go out on our own. And, of course, I don’t remember everything that I said. But we had some conversations about this. You know, we had been in a lot of circumstances where people owned every move we made. If we wanted, if I wanted to do a book, you know, I had to go through somebody, if we wanted to speak, we had to do this, we didn’t have a lot of flexibility, and that impacted us. And so if I remember correctly, I said something along the lines of you have, like, you know, it’s time that we take a little bit more control over what we do.
And, you know, we sat down, and we assess kind of where we were at financially. And I think that, you know, I want to be fair to the listener, it was a little bit easier to relate, because the way that people had tried to control our career in the past, you saw firsthand, so it’s not like you needed me to explain it to you. It’s also not like you didn’t know that we were struggling with that, you were just as ready as I was. But either way, for somebody that’s listening or their significant other their partner. What did you think? And what did you feel the moment you knew I was truly resolute about jumping out on our own?
Brett Bartholomew 13:36
Yeah. So I think just overall, with this episode, I’ve been kind of thinking about when we started talking about it, just all the context that went into that conversation before then. And I think in general, anyone that’s about to have this conversation, their partner probably already knows that they’re thinking about this, or at least I would hope so. If you’re looking to make this jump, it’s hopefully something that you’ve been maybe building on the side or preparing these concepts, figuring out like, what you’re actually going to do or what your thing is that you’re going for. So I’m pretty sure most partners would already be aware, this isn’t going to be like, Hey, I’m doing this. And it’s a complete surprise to them. So yeah, like you said, this was something that we kind of talked about before. And when we did start really saying like, okay, are we going to do this? We had other historical record, I guess, maybe what I’m trying to say of, I had seen you do certain things before where I knew that you were going to be able to do, go out on your own with it.
Brett Bartholomew 16:24
So alright, so but what does that mean for the listener? What do you mean, like you saw me do? Because you could see, let’s say, the person that asked this question, they’re successful in their own right, and what they do, right, but all types of success are not transferable. Right, Michael Jordan, one very good at baseball. Yep. And so just because I was, you know, you saw me achieve something in one domain. Why did that give you confidence that this would work when even I had the time? I mean, let’s face it. And to give you guys context, this ties into the episode I talked about, you know, launching my book, at this time, I pretty much emptied my savings to help publish the book, we were literally driving across the country, not like the book was launched, we had no idea what it was going to do. I had no newsletter, no podcasts, you know, I didn’t have some, you know, a huge following that was going to help me kind of spread this. I mean, to be honest, it was pretty naive. So we had never done anything like that before. So where did that confidence come from?
Liz Bartholomew 18:31
Yeah, I think a combination of things that we just before this, we had already done a big booth where you were starting a completely new job, and there was more sales involved. And it was a big change for the for both of us. And we had gotten through that and all the hurdles that were involved. So we had already been through a big thing like that together. And so, you know, I had that confidence that no matter what happened, we would figure it out as we went along. And then just with your drive, and you had a plan in place for what you were doing. It wasn’t something you weren’t going from one career field to a completely different area. You were staying in your domain of expertise. So I was confident in your credibility and your knowledge in the area. I knew you could get people to come to it. So yeah.
Brett Bartholomew 19:25
But what if you didn’t? Right. And I think the more information we can give our audience to at the time, your job paid you what? The job that you had?
Liz Bartholomew 19:33
Yeah, I mean so on the other side of things, when we were starting to talk about it, I was at a job where I had only really been there for a year and was really starting to get into it and enjoyed it. It was just made full time. And so we actually talked about me even maybe staying at that job and
Brett Bartholomew 19:55
Meaning that I would have driven across the country and you would have stayed in Los Angeles.
Liz Bartholomew 20:00
Yeah, we would have done long distance.
Brett Bartholomew 20:02
And what was your annual salary on that job? Because again, I want our listeners to relate as much as possible, I would have given up my salary. Right, which at the time in California, like I was making, like $65,000 California money. So anybody knows half of that goes to Sunshine tax. Right. And so, but effectively at this point, now, I was gonna make nothing. I mean, I had athletes I continue to train, people that you continue to coach all that, but like, we were moving to Georgia, right, so I’m gone. What did you make?
Liz Bartholomew 20:30
Yeah, I think I was at like, six around $65,000.
Brett Bartholomew 20:33
Okay, so yeah. And did you have any loans that you were still paying off? Did you have any debt?
Liz Bartholomew 20:40
No, car payment, but
Brett Bartholomew 20:42
Right, so that goes into it, I think, alright, so given you and we’re gonna bring her back in a moment. But I just want to continue to go down these principles. So we’ve talked about consider the communicators, right. The people involved, their background, their perception, and this is somebody as Liz resolute too and hopefully I did as well, that you know, pretty well, but you’re not going to know everything about them. I mean, listen, you know, depending on how long you’ve even been in the relationship, right? You don’t really know somebody, we said this all the time, you don’t know somebody, let alone yourself, until you’ve kind of been through the wringer until you’ve thrown it all out the window and been like, Hey, this is what it is, right? That’s why they say some of the happiest couples in the world are the ones that kind of been through war together. There’s no perfect relationship. But yeah, there’s going to be some things that you’re not going to know about how they interact. The other principle, of course, in these contextual aspects of communication is the medium. When I let Liz, when I let you know, I didn’t text this to you. Did I say, Hey, I’m leaving my job.
Liz Bartholomew 21:34
No you didn’t.
Brett Bartholomew 21:34
Right. So like, and we’d like to think that that’s obvious. But we still live in a world where people quit their job via text, they break up with people via text, they do all these things. The media matters, right? So this is something that hopefully goes without saying, but we’re gonna say it anyway, this is a face to face conversation, right? This is a face to face conversation. Another piece that I think goes without saying, but needs to be said is timing. Guys, if you’ve just made some big life change, maybe doing this right after that is not a great idea. But it doesn’t even have to be a life change. I mean, we would be hypocritical like Liz said, we had just made a big life change a year and a half prior. And now we’re here doing it again. But you have to consider everything like right now. Let’s say you’re moving while housing prices are insane, right? If you quit your job, is it gonna cost you to move? Let’s just say yes, because we want to help as many viewers as possible, and then we’ll say no, and address that in a moment. Well, now you have to deal with inflation, you’re gonna have to deal with your lack of income. So That better be in your plan, right?
Brett Bartholomew 22:31
Let’s say no, you don’t have to move. Okay. Well, you still need to lay out. And I think, you know, the gentleman that gave us this question talked about that, is what is a slow month look like? Well, do you really know, because if you’re building this business from scratch, I would say you want to have at least some kind of proof of concept. Now, like you said, we never had proof of concept, and that we knew what today’s art of coaching was going to work. But we didn’t know that we had athletes that were loyal. We had people that you know, thankfully supported what I had done in other ways. But still, that’s no guarantee of financial income. Right? There’s a lot of people that listen to this podcast, I think, what we’re almost at 2 million downloads, 2 million people don’t buy all of our courses, so there’s no guarantee. So you do have to consider a worst case scenario, you have to consider a best case scenario for further context, when COVID hit, we lost $250,000 of live events, how do you plan for that? You can’t always right off the bat, you know, you can’t always right off the bat.
Brett Bartholomew 23:33
So you know, the couple of things here, you also have to consider, you know, and I think that this is easier said than done. You have to consider the aspect of Alright, I’ve looked at the timing, I’ve crafted my message, I know my partner well, I think I’ve laid out a plan that’s clear. Guys, some people are just scared of change. And they’re scared of change for a wide variety of reasons. And we’ve covered this in episodes as well. But they’re scared because they maybe don’t think that change is necessary. You know, and that could be maybe they want to have kids. And there’s other things that they were thinking in their mind. They were thinking, hey, you know, I don’t think you’ve given this job enough time, or I don’t think you’re applying yourself enough to it, whatever could be just changed. It could be their issue.
You know, they could also just be suspicious, right? I do know that, of course, you have to look at your track record. Are you jumping constantly? Does it seem like nothing really makes you happy? If you’re somebody that like you have this big idea, and you’re like, yes, changing jobs is gonna make me happy. But again, you look at your track record, and you weren’t really happy with the job prior to that, and maybe you’re complaining about this, like, you have to be careful with that. I mean, there’s a lot of things that people think will make them happy, and it just doesn’t. You know, and that’s on both sides of the equation.
Brett Bartholomew 24:49
So again, just giving you a lot of things to think about because communication is very messy. Communication is messy. And we might think that It’s a pretty simple thing based in logic as to whether our message was successfully received and supported. But if you’ve listened to one of our previous podcasts, I can’t remember the name of it. But logic doesn’t always change minds, you’ve got to address the emotions, you know. Liz, what were some other things that for anybody listening, especially if they send this episode to their partner, what went through your head not not only when we announced this, because you kind of covered that. But was there any point in time when we were driving that you’re like, and get ready guys bad word. Oh, shit, we made the wrong decision. Or even now, and this is an open conversation, has there been moments in our business now that you’re still have wondered, did we do the right thing?
Liz Bartholomew 25:43
So to answer the question, I think, yeah, there’s always times where you get a little bit worried on that. I think just in general, if you’re someone that’s thinking about leaving, maybe a salary position and going on to be an entrepreneur, that’s all things that you have to think about before you even do this as it’s a lot, sometimes it gets glamorized and there’s a lot of aspects to it. And I think one of the things that, you know, when we were talking about when you first told me, I’m not a super big risk taker, but at the same time, I’m very optimistic, and I believe in you. So I may be, there’s probably other people that are a lot more, if they’re talking to their partner, that a lot more skeptical than I would have been right off the bat.
So I’m trying to think, you know, from that other person’s perspective, what I think you do really well, whenever we’re talking about a big change with the business or with our life is you do go through those worst case scenarios, and we work together through like, hey, this could happen and that could turn into this. And then this could happen. Because, again, even though I don’t like taking risks, sometimes I’m too optimistic and view the world and rose colored glasses, I don’t think about all those things. So when you talk about it, and you bring those things up, and you have to think about okay, what would I do in this situation, it helps when you do come to some of those things, because they do inevitably happen sometimes, then you’re more prepared, you’ve already thought about it.
And so I think we’ve always that, I think that’s the key is, you know, you, you can always explain a way through logic or get them to make that decision with you through logic. But if you can work together on finding going through all the things that could happen, what you’re thinking, this is plan B, plan C, then they’re probably going to be like we said, along the lines, this conversation has been a longer conversation, it’s not going to be a one time thing, but if you’re working through it with them, and then considering where they’re at with their career and stuff as well, there might be aspects where they’re helping you with the business, because it’s hard to do alone, I think even when you just started, I was still doing my other job. And I was helping do the shipping and little things like that. So gauging their interests in terms of how much they want to help you. And I think I just went on a little bit of a rant there. I don’t know if that’s okay.
Brett Bartholomew 28:16
I mean, I think another thing, and I want to come back to that in a moment, because I think that there’s a number of things that are going to help people listening to this. It’s the principles, it’s the perspective, I think we’ll give some examples, which I’m going to do now. And then I’m going to be honest about my fears. I wouldn’t say regrets, but fears and things that I still think about, because I think the more anchor points we can give people that are asking this question or might have it in the future, the better. So you know while I said that I can’t tell you exactly what to say to somebody, I can give you examples, right? And you can figure out what maybe works best for you.
I know, if you’re anything like me, I am such an example based person, there’s so many things I can figure out how to improve upon if you just give me kind of a roadmap. So of course, there’s the approach. And this is one as we’ve done some research on how other people have had the discussion, where you do take the rationalistic perspective and you say, Okay, let’s do the math and see what that would look like. And you sit down with a household budget and you consider the new scenario with less money in, could you be able to meet your current financial obligations? Where would you have to cut back? Where would you be saving less? Like I said, would you have to move? What about the future?
Brett Bartholomew 29:28
Any of the and I think the other person, even if they’re skeptical as consider, would taking a pay cut now actually lead to greater financial gains later on. Right? Let’s say you run a business out of your house. Well, you know, there’s always a lot of tax incentives that you can do that in terms of write offs, but with the dollars and cents picture clear. Once you have that, then you can talk about other intangibles. And those are huge, right? Just like maybe it allows you to spend more time at home, maybe it allows you to have more date nights. Don’t forget about those other kinds of things. It’s not just About your net income, but your net happiness. I’ll say that again, not just about your net income, right? It’s about your net happiness, you have to think about those other intangibles.
Another really good point or they’re really referenced, hey, remember, it’s not about saying, I’m going to quit my job to your spouse but discussing with, I think that goes back to how you frame your communication in general, of how you broach that, and how you frame it up, like, you know, just saying, hey, there’s some things I want to discuss with you. And like I mentioned at the beginning, relating, so you know how I’ve been a little down lately, or I’ve seen conflicted or I’ve seemed a little bit detached, or maybe I haven’t really been the partner I want to be, well, there’s a bigger reason for that and I’ve been scared to bring it up to you because I know you have a lot going on. Think about how that comes across. Right? Then you’re taking that other person’s perspective. And you’re addressing that in a way where they’re not really getting bombarded, you know.
Brett Bartholomew 30:55
And so I think that those are other examples. I really, really, really want to make sure that you guys understand that I just, and you got to take my advice with a grain of salt, what do I know, but just don’t lead, like I said, with, you know what, I’m going to follow my passion, this is what I’m going to do and either get with it or not. Now, those examples out of the way, I will talk about some concerns I had, right, I’m somebody that admittedly, it’s hard to trust. And like I said earlier, I think one concern I had, if I went back and was listening to this myself is you just don’t know who’s gonna be loyal. Now you can address that, I think that a big thing that you have to think about is the inevitable phone calls that you’re gonna get as well.
I know, when I left, man, it was it was very odd, all my “friends”, right, would reach out and these were people that I maybe worked with in the past, or whatever is they would reach out be like, Hey, are you okay? Like, I heard you’re doing this but you know, what about this, what about that? And I remember thinking about, you know what, I could get angry about this, because I can totally tell that this person like, is basically writing me off, or they’re just trying to get some scoop, so they can talk about it, and whatever, or I can think about it as a way to practice getting really clear on what I’m doing.
Brett Bartholomew 32:13
And so that’s what I did, I’d be like, listen, now, the bottom line is, I want to continue to grow as a coach, no different than, you know, a chef that works at a restaurant wants to maybe own his own someday, or a musician wants to hire other musicians, I want to help coaches with bigger picture stuff. And while I enjoyed coaching athletes for many years, there’s a lot of other fields I’m interested in, performance for sure. And we still do a lot of consulting in the performance space, we’re still heavily involved there. But I’d be lying to all of you as listeners, if I said I don’t enjoy working with people in the corporate setting, the military setting, the medical setting, and everything else. They’re different problems. And that’s what a coach does.
And so I think once I got clear about how to explain that to people, that also helped me clarify my message with Liz, and anybody else in my life. Even my parents, I mean, my brother thought it was crazy that we are moving in to a degree, you know, there’s people in your life you don’t need to explain everything to, but I think you have to look at it all as practice. That said, another fear that I had on the opposite end is I did have to think, you know, Liz, as she mentioned, Liz is pretty a risk averse. Anybody that knows Liz, and I say this lovingly. But Liz, I mean, you’d agree you’re you’re far more conservative than I am in many things. Yeah.
Liz Bartholomew 33:26
Yeah, I like to, I like to have a plan, I like to have a routine. And if something throws that off, it kind of throws off my day.
Brett Bartholomew 33:34
Right, and how many things now that we do at Art Of Coaching, whether it’s Speaker School, which we just launched, our Coalition mastermind, this podcast, the Apprenticeship, what else do we have going on? Like the Brand Builder that we’re hosting in March? How many of those things were planned five years ago?
Liz Bartholomew 33:50
None of it.
Brett Bartholomew 33:51
None of them, right. And so, Liz likes having a plan. But you know, you can’t always plan for these things. I mean, guys, that’s the nature of improv. That’s why I like improvisation, the very thing we teach at our workshops, is the essence of innovation. And it’s also just about, you know, it’s about problem solving within boundaries with your available resources, and the ability to adapt. And so, I think that that’s another thing you have to ask yourself is not only what is your risk tolerance, what is your partner’s risk tolerance, what is the timing, what are the financial implications is what is your capacity to make something from nothing? Because that will happen, you know, that will happen and I will say some of it is a blessing, some of it is a curse. You know, we put out an online course, something I never thought we do, get really big. But then we did another online course that way more coaches said they wanted. That was all about financial struggles and this and it kind of bombed at first. And so we almost completely, you know, trash that and then COVID hit, and then people started asking about that stuff again, and then that created some of the most profitable parts of our business.
Brett Bartholomew 35:01
So I think as long as you know that even if your partner is all on board, and excited about it, you are gonna have some moments where you’re in the dumps, you’re gonna have some moments where they’re gonna look at you, and they’re gonna be like, are you sure this was the right choice? You’re going to have some moments where you might even ask that, you know? And are you ready to not just have that conversation with your partner, which is what this really started about? Is what, but also, what is that conversation you’re going to have with yourself. I know that my resolve was tested, when we were just getting this stuff started. And there were three or four jobs that were offered to me that offered more money than I had ever made in my life. And that was a time for me to look in the mirror and be like, Alright, dude, you say you’re all in on Art Of Coaching, all in on the communication, helping coaches and leaders kind of get out of their own way, do all these things. But now you got an offer for half a million dollars, are you still in. And I remember, that was another discussion we had to have where I’d say, hey, Liz, here’s an offer for $500,000, it’s unfathomable. They’re gonna give this and this and this and that.
Brett Bartholomew 36:11
And you know what, we still bet on ourselves. Because here’s the thing, guys, and maybe this is a little bit too meta. But there’s nothing more important in your life as a commodity, than the ownership of your own intellectual property, or at least the ability to create within the confines or an umbrella of another organization that will let you keep, like a portion of what you kill, right, because not everybody should go out and be an entrepreneur and leave their job and whatever. Some people, it’s better to be a part of that kind of organization. And so I want to give you that alternative as well. Because the only option isn’t just to like, leave your job and start your own thing, you could leave your job and go be a part of somebody else’s thing. And make sure or especially if they give you a cut of the action, you know, like I think about our colleague Ali, right, like a treasured member of our team. Like we don’t want, of course, I would be stupid to be like, hey, Ali, you can’t have your own brand in Art Of Coaching. I want many people to know Ali and any other future employee that is loyal onstage with us. And so you incentivize those people appropriately.
Brett Bartholomew 37:20
So I just want to make sure I’m super inclusive here, where we’re not just talking about, you know, the conversation, I want to leave my job and start my own thing, it could be I want to leave my job and go do this other thing. And that’s another thing that I have experienced. And I’ll be frank, there have been people that we’ve tried poaching, you know, and at the end of the day, we couldn’t convince their significant other, and or they couldn’t convince their significant other. I mean, there were times where I looked at Liz, and I go, you know, it’s almost like somebody thinks I’m starting a, like a CBD thing in my mom’s basement, you know, but then we had to realize that, guys, there’s just so many other reasons why people don’t want to move the needle in their own life, and don’t always want to allow the other people in their life to move the needle as well. And I think that’s hard. But I think that you need to consider it.
Brett Bartholomew 38:05
And I think that the other thing that I can give you guys that I think is absolutely invaluable. And Liz and I are going to do it for you on here, to give you more perspective is you can consider these principles, that contextual aspects of communication, all the other things, but nothing, and I do mean this nothing replaces the use of strategic roleplay. This is a massive part of what we do at Art Of Coaching, just targeted adversarial simulations that give you that real life practice. And, you know, that’s how you really enhance the skill of communication. You know, I could give all of you, you know, something to download right now. And it could give you the best of the best of the best communication advice. But that doesn’t make you a skilled communicator. Training does. And that’s a big part of why we offer this even on our subtle plug, we offer remote training and communication where we do role playing, you can go to artofcoaching.com/communication, I’ll be happy to play the role of your significant other and tell you all the reasons you’re stupid for leaving your job. Or, you know, we do this at our apprenticeship. But what Liz and I agreed on right now is we’re going to do two versions of roleplay.
Right now, I’m going to be the spouse or the partner, however you guys want to phrase it, cut me some slack, we’re just gonna use partner. I’m going to be the partner at first that is taken aback by Liz’s decision, which she’s just informed me of, to leave her job to go do something else. And we’re gonna make this role playing scenario as tough and basically make sure that it does not go well. Right, I’m gonna push Liz in a corner, and we’re just going to prepare you for like, oh boy, what’s the possible worst case scenario or at least one version of them? And then we’re gonna do another one and we’re gonna see how that goes and see if it’s a little bit more agreeable. Because there are so many different possibilities when you guys plan this out. I mean, think about it, not to get it again, multiversal on you. But in any interaction, there are innumerable more than 300 different ways that those things could go based on people’s interpretations and phrasing and all that. So Liz, let’s see this up, okay? I’m sitting here, watching the Mandalorian, or whatever. And you know, you want to have this conversation started however you want. And let’s rock and roll.
Liz Bartholomew 40:24
Brett Bartholomew 40:28
and this is on the spot. So, you know, we’re gonna show you this is real life is what you get. So,
Liz Bartholomew 40:34
Hey, honey, you know, do you have some time? Are you gonna finish that show? Or, there’s something I kind of wanted to talk to you about? Can we talk for a minute?
Brett Bartholomew 40:42
Yeah, I mean, it’s only got five minutes left. Can you just, can you wait a little bit? I mean, I literally just got done working, I need a little bit to unwind. Is this like, super critical? Give me, give me a Defcon level of how important this is right now.
Liz Bartholomew 40:55
This is, it’s a pretty big life decision. But I want you to be in the right headspace when we talk about it. So if you need, take a few more minutes.
Brett Bartholomew 41:02
No, it’s fine, whatever. Alright, I’ll pause it. What’s up?
Liz Bartholomew 41:05
All right. So you know, I’ve been talking about this business that I’ve been dreaming of, and how I want to kind of go out on my own. And, you know, I’m just, the job right now, my hours are so long. And I just feel like I don’t get any time with our son. And it’s just, it’s too much. I just don’t feel fulfilled and I’m not happy. I want to be able to be around the house a little bit more and have more control over my time. And I’ve gone through all the pricing, I’ve gone through all this planning and I’ll happily sit down and walk through that with you. But I think I’m going to start this laundry business that I want to do.
Brett Bartholomew 41:45
Now pause for a moment, I want to point this out to you guys, as an audience, there’s a million ways that you could go with this right now. Right? I could say, hey, what about that last business you did? That one failed, right? I could say, Okay, tell me more about this. I mean, you’ve been in your job for, you know, 14 years, why change now? You have to fill this in with your own contexts. Okay. There’s another thing I could do is I could point out, did you see what she did? If you run this back, and you time that disclosure, think about how long she talked now that might be very appropriate based on your partner and their communication preferences. Or you might feel like that was long winded. Now. In this case, I’m going to choose option B. Because remember, I was just watching a show. I seemed like I was kind of irritated to begin with. So I’m gonna be like, we’ll just watch what I do here.
Brett Bartholomew 42:31
Listen, that was kind of a lot. What are you saying? You want to leave your job and start a laundry business? And is that what I’m hearing?
Liz Bartholomew 42:37
Yeah, I mean, I’ve kind of been building it up on the side. And I’m gonna give it a little bit more time to really test it out. But I think I have a timeline of within the next few months, I’m going to try and leave my job and do just this.
Brett Bartholomew 42:51
Yeah. But I mean, listen, I think it’s great that you want to follow your passion. Obviously, you’re very intelligent, you’ve worked your way up and your job. I mean, in my opinion, you’re crushing it. I know, periodically, you’ve complained about it. But I mean, we all complain about our jobs. I guess my question is, like, why laundry, right? Like half the time I’m doing the laundry here. I’ve never noticed that you were especially passionate about laundry. Have you been studying laundry businesses, you listened to a lot of laundry business podcasts? Is this one of those like, Tupperware schemes that some friend got you into? What like, why the laundry?
Liz Bartholomew 43:23
No, I have been doing a ton of research on other businesses, how they do it. And I’ve got a system worked out where a pricing plan everything and I just feel like that is one of the, I think I can do it really well. I think I can utilize my network. And I think it allows me the freedom that I want, and the ability to have my own thing.
Brett Bartholomew 43:49
Alright, so for the audience, let’s do a, choose your own adventure here. I could say alright, show me the numbers. Do you have this planned out? Do you have a business plan? Or I could say What do you mean, you have the support of people, you know, in your corner? Like what have you ever sold to people, remember, I’m trying to be kind of an ass? Or I could be like, Okay, I mean, if this is something you really want to do, but here’s the thing, you know, I’m in a transition point in my career and I just I’m not in a position to be able to bail you out if this goes south, which one you want to play out?
Liz Bartholomew 44:23
The transition in your career can’t bail you out.
Brett Bartholomew 44:25
All right. I mean, listen, this all sounds well and good. And I know you have some friends that could support you but as you know, like I’m still in a transition point in my career. I’ve been waiting to take the next step up for a while. They keep promising me this role, you know, and I’m not blind, I’m not gonna stay here forever. But I do want to, like maintain my due diligence and get this I mean, I think I’ve earned it. If you do this now and I don’t get that role, that just compounds our financial issues. We’re in a way tougher spot. I know you want to have kids. You know, we like more kids when we already have one and daycare is expensive. Like, I guess what I’m trying to say is I want to be supportive of you. But I’m not like, we’re not in a position where if this goes poorly, that it’s just gravy, you know that it’s going to be something where we’re both reevaluating some aspects of our career. And we’re really going to have to cut back.
Liz Bartholomew 45:14
Yeah, so I mean from the financial side of things and the numbers, I have a set goal that I want to hit over the next few months. And if I hit that goal, then I’ve run the numbers, and I know that I can, and it’s going to change, right? Am I gonna always have the same numbers every month, but like I said, I’ve got a sales plan, marketing, this and that. And if I hit certain numbers, then I feel like I can make it sustainable. But, you know, I’ve been also doing my research in general and being an entrepreneur, and like, they say, most businesses fail. And so when I do leave my job, if I do get to that point, I want to make sure that it’s amicable. I’m not going to just like leave them high and dry. Because if I do need to go back to it, I want that to be available. Or, you know, I have this other option I can go work in the family business as well. And they’re always asking for me to help out. So I have options where I don’t need you to bail me out if it comes to that.
Brett Bartholomew 46:17
Okay, so this is what I would say, I’m not a numbers guy. And even if I was, I just don’t have the time to process that right now. So there’s a couple things that I think would make sense, if you’re actually going to do this one, we need to get a CPA, like we can’t just keep doing our own taxes, we need somebody that actually can look at these numbers, see what we can afford. And maybe there’s ways that we can, since we’re taking a hit financially, maybe there’s ways that we’re not recognizing that, there’s write offs, or there’s other deductions, especially if you run it out of the house. I don’t know, this is not what my education’s in.
So we need to figure that out. And besides the CPA, I think that we need to reach out to Tommy, right, because Tommy does have a background in this, or at the very least, if you don’t want to talk to Tommy, we need to find a coach, you know, and I think there’s these awesome people at Art Of Coaching that help people figure these things out. So like, maybe we need to reach out to them at artofcoaching.com/communication and figure these things out. The bottom line is I need more information, I need to lay this out, I need to make sense of it because it’s a little scary to me. But I mean, if it makes you happy. Sure. I mean, are you are you good with taking those next steps and looking and into other people that can actually give us a devil’s advocate view? Tell us our blind spots and maybe even tell us what what other advantages we might not be seeing right away?
Liz Bartholomew 47:33
Man, that was so sweet. You giving me a hard time? I feel like I got it pretty quick.
Brett Bartholomew 47:37
Yeah, well, I mean, listen, like the reality is, is there’s so many degrees of freedom, right? And I want you guys as listeners, and maybe it’s helpful for you to do this. You know, write out a list of all the rebuttals. I mean, everything. It could even be like, Yeah, but I want new shoes. Or it could be I don’t like the way laundry clean, laundry smells so the last thing I want you to do is have a laundry business. The one thing you don’t want to do, especially when you’re doing strategic role playing, is put too many constraints on the plausibility of something. You want to think about things that anything that’s possible that they might come up with it because guys, here’s the thing, even if you get ready to counter argue something that is way out of left field. Like hey, Liz, well, you’re gonna have to use detergent, and I hear detergent, you know, creates more COVID, right, and it’s just something that’s crazy. It’s better that you just get the practice because while that might be crazy, there’s other things that people are gonna say all the time in your life that are out of left field.
Brett Bartholomew 48:36
So don’t just think about the argument, think about what the argument represents. There’s somebody is concerned about money. It’s not just about money, money represents security and freedom and safety. If somebody is mad about, I don’t know, you know, like, let’s say they’re, they’re like, well, you know, I don’t know, it’s just gonna take up so much time and whatever, great, think about what that time represents to them. That’s the key thing that I’m trying to get you guys to understand is.
When you’re having a discussion with somebody, whether that’s an amicable discussion, whether that’s an argument, think about the subtext, the reason they are countering is almost never about that reason itself. It’s about what that thing represents. Now, let’s try this going extraordinarily well. Okay. And I just want to finish my thought there because, sorry, I got on a tangent right down on the list. Every reason they could counter, everything that could go wrong, every mistake that could it get made and when you guys cover your backside, the upside takes care of itself. Alright, you want to keep the same roles and just do it in an alternative way.
Liz Bartholomew 49:39
Brett Bartholomew 49:40
All right. So go ahead and yeah, this time, it’ll go a little bit better, more amicably.
Liz Bartholomew 49:45
Hey, honey, I know you’re watching your show. But when you have a minute, I have something I really want to talk to you about.
Brett Bartholomew 49:53
Okay, yeah. What’s up?
Liz Bartholomew 49:54
Oh, okay. So, you know, I’ve been talking about this, this business idea that I had have with the laundry system. And, you know, I’ve been running the numbers, I’ve been doing all this research. And I really think within the next few months, I could be ready to go out and do this and maybe even quit my job do this full time.
Brett Bartholomew 50:16
Yeah, I mean, I think I know you’ve been working at this for a while, I don’t doubt your ability. I know you’ve run the numbers and shown them before. One question I do have, however, and don’t take this as me not supporting it, I just want to learn a little bit more is, you know, you’re going to need help at some point in time. And as you know, I’m not going to leave my job to do that, though I do support you, how are you going to manage things like hiring? Because I’m not really worried about the financial aspect of it? I know you got that covered. But you know, hiring and then also is this gonna take you away from what we want to do on the weekend, you know, again, like, we don’t get a ton of time as it is. And you know that I spell love T,I,M,E, shout out Ron McKee. And I just, those are concerns. So I’m supportive of this. Totally, I’m not being performative about that. I do worry about maybe the time it will take away, are you going to have help? And those things?
Liz Bartholomew 51:07
Yeah, I think that’s totally valid. And the answer is, I’m sure at the beginning, there is going to be a little bit more time that’s involved. And while I’m building up my my customer base, but that’s why I’ve been trying to do it on the side, while you know, I still have my salary and stuff. So you know, I think there is going to come a time where I’ll do some hiring and I can figure that out. I don’t want you to feel like this is going to be put on you. I’m going to have Plan B and Plan C if I get to the point where it’s taking away too much time from us and it’s not working out in general, then I’ll have my my backup options. But yeah, I want to walk through all these scenarios with you so that we’re prepared for what is to come?
Brett Bartholomew 51:58
Great. Let’s do this. I’m gonna finish this and I have some things I have to knock out tonight but put it on appointment or like create a calendar, send me a Gmail invite whatever and let’s, you know, let’s do it, let’s go get dinner or let’s, you know, like, have somebody watch your kids for a night and let’s just go over this and really hash this out to make sure we’re on the same page. And yeah, I’m excited for you. I think this will go great.
Liz Bartholomew 52:18
Wow, great. Thank you.
Brett Bartholomew 52:19
Cool. All right. So notice how even though I said that was gonna go, Well, I didn’t soft toss it for, right. I’m not going to make it unrealistic and be like, oh, cool, you got a business, you’re gonna be a millionaire. Like, be ready for some rebuttal. And my point to bring that to you is like, don’t, make sure that you as the one trying to have that conversation, it will be really easy for you to interpret any question as them not being supportive, you know, it’s easy for you to be really defensive about your dream. But the right to have questions, remember, you know, to summarize a lot of what we’ve talked about, they are, it is valid for them, to be worried about giving up stable income and the savings and all those aspects, you have to contextualize it, you have to consider their fears, you have to think about the pressure it may put on them, them not understanding your idea. You know, always think about where those fears arise from, identifying their conversational DNA, so you can better target your messaging, making sure that the timing is appropriate, get in their heads, and in most of all, roleplay roleplay roleplay.
Brett Bartholomew 53:25
You know, I once had somebody tell me, when we were talking about one of my business ideas, the apprenticeship, that, you know, I love you, but I’m never going to come to something where you know, I roleplay and play, make believe, you know, I want to encourage you guys to understand and feel free to look at this. There is tremendous research out there about the use of role playing in just about every profession. Ironically, coaching is not one of them, especially performance coaching. NASA uses role playing, the military uses role playing, the field of medicine uses it, especially pre medical students, lawyers use role playing and all this to make sure they stay on narrative. You know, you’re not too cool to get conversational practice. That’s what that is.
You play many roles in your daily life, you are not only a partner, you are a, you know, your colleague, you’re a co worker, you’re this and everyday, you have to play a role and deal with things that you’re not always going to be prepared for. So why not practice those interactions? It’s the most valuable thing you can do. And you know what, if you don’t have a friend that will do it with you reach out to us, we love this stuff. Because you cannot put a price on perspective. And experience isn’t something you get until just after you needed it. So laying these things out, practicing the conversation are a huge help. You know, a couple things and then let Liz close us out here. Well, actually, Liz, what final thoughts do you have? I want to let you add to that before I and then I’ll close this out.
Liz Bartholomew 54:51
Yeah, I think even just listening to you say that and thinking about what I said when we were role playing. I think about oh wow, I really, all I was talking about was myself and my idea, even though I was trying to like, lob up the idea for you and not just like, force it on you, I still didn’t say, Hey, I know that this is going on with you right now, like, and so. So like you said, the role playing even if you think you have all planned out what you want to say sometimes you catch yourself and realize like, Oh, I really didn’t do this as well as I thought I was going to or like I had planned, so it helps prepare you.
Brett Bartholomew 55:28
Spot on. And if you guys will grant me a little bit of grace, you know, we obviously will, we support anybody that wants to go out on their own. Do these things, have the hard conversations that we all need to have. I hope you’ll support us in a simple ask, you know, we’re hosting a lot of unique events this year. And one of those is our Brand Builder event. And I know we could have called it the blueprint, the business builder, guys, you know, sometimes we need to not be so sensitive over words. But this is an event where we’re going to do these things. So if you are thinking about going on your own, you are thinking about starting your own thing, or you even thinking about joining somebody else’s thing, please consider going to artofcoaching.com/brand and checking it out, we are going to do a combination of lectures, role playing scenarios, group study exercises basically help you get more clarity on what you’re trying to build.
You know, so whether you’re trying to identify what’s keeping you from taking that next step, if you want to figure out what your time is actually worth, if you have trouble charging for your time, if you’re trying to clarify your target audience, really everything you’re going to need to identify to be able to have this conversation successfully with your significant other. That is what this is about. It is March 19 and 20th. It’s here in Atlanta, and we have payment plans, all kinds of different things. And listen, it’s no more comfortable for me to sell what we do than it is for you guys to sell what you do, but we’re very confident in this. We’ve walked the walk, we’ve made the mistakes, we’re gonna give you that information.
Brett Bartholomew 56:54
So I don’t want a hard sell yet. But at the same time, we give a lot away for free. So I hope that you don’t begrudge us for trying to pitch you on this. If that’s not quite your deal. And you still want to get into role playing check out our apprenticeships, you can go to artofcoaching.com/apprenticeship. And guys, we have helped people deal with family issues, we have helped people deal with Job Interview stuff, you know, all these kinds of things. There’s nothing that we haven’t seen, and it’s a very welcoming environment.
Brett Bartholomew 57:19
The only thing I’ll tell you is this. I’m a father, right? I’m a husband. And so one thing we’re doing this year is we’re cutting down on our travel a little bit. The last four years, I’ve traveled over 100,000 miles. So you know, I would love to be able to get to every city, every country, all those things. But to a degree what is on our website is what’s going to be on our website. So meet us halfway through, we’re going to be in every coast, there’s tons of dates up there. I would love to see you, I’d love to work with you, I’d love to fail with you, learn with you, build with you. Check those things out. Special thank you to my wife for coming on tonight. It is literally 12:15 in the morning. We’re about to leave town to go teach a workshop. So Liz, thank you for coming on. And I thank all of you for listening. Do us a favor, send this to a friend and anything you want to sign off with.
Liz Bartholomew 58:08
Thank you for having me.
Brett Bartholomew 58:09
All right, this is the Art Of Coaching podcast Brett Bartholomew, Liz Bartholomew and represented by also great ideas with Ali Kershner, thanking you and talking to you soon.
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