Coaching is all about discovering what makes an individual tick so you can help them take the next step in their life, career, or sport… But when you work with people who aren’t consistently motivated, compliant or driven, it can feel like solving a 10,000 piece puzzle.
And yet, that’s the job; Whether you train athletes or work with professionals, it’s up to you to figure out the puzzle- not shirk responsibility and fulfill your own agenda.
Luckily, today’s guest Elisabeth Oehler doesn’t hold back, sharing her best strategies for adapting to and understanding the individuals you work with so you can more successfully guide and collaborate.
Elisabeth is a strength coach and licensed weightlifting coach by the German Olympic Sports Confederation. She’s also a full time coach and consultant for her company (EO Performance) in which she helps organizations develop long term athletic development programs and does online coaching for recreational athletes, semi-pro and elite athletes in rugby, football, soccer and weightlifting. Prior to this, she mainly coached in elementary schools and kids on a volunteer basis.
- How to program for and communicate with a younger generation
- Dealing with criticism and people who don’t agree with your opinion
- Approaching and coaching lazy, unmotivated or traumatized athletes
- The reason we don’t actually want to be life-long learners…
Connect with Elisabeth:
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Brett Bartholomew 0:07
Welcome to the Art of coaching podcast, a show aimed at getting to the core of what it takes to change attitudes, behaviors and outcomes in the weight room, boardroom classroom, and everywhere in between. I’m your host, Brett Bartholomew, I’m a performance coach, keynote speaker and the author of the book conscious coaching. But most importantly, I’m a lifelong student interested in all aspects of human behavior and communication. I want to thank you for joining me and now let’s dive into today’s episode.
This episode is brought to you by Momentous, Saga fitness and Versaclimber. I cannot be more thankful for these three organizations. Collectively, they provide world class resources in their space with Momentous if you are somebody who is purposeful about what you put in your body, right? Not fanatical, purposeful Momentous has a complete line of supplements that will help you on the road. And with your hectic schedule in real life. From protein to fish oil, they focus on the staples, none of this radical stuff that you see people pumping into their body, nothing that is attached to some kind of radical diet, no nonsense stuff that works that we can all benefit from. I know my mom is somebody that doesn’t get enough protein, sometimes my hectic schedule, I don’t, we can all use more healthy fats in our body. So check them out at livemomentous.com
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And finally Versaclimber, my great friend over there Kirsten Martin, person who’s just as fun to kind of shoot the breeze and have a glass of wine with as it is to talk about business with. There’s nothing that beats the efficiency and utility of the Versaclimber if you’re trying to get a quick workout in, that does not beat up your body. So check them out. Additionally, guys, we are in the final stretch of our live events here. Now you might hear this and 2023 2025, whatever. But the live event I’m talking about is our Apprenticeship communication workshop. No matter what field you’re in communication is the centerpiece of what you do. Research proves more adaptable communicators get more effort out of people, more engagement, more consistency. Bottom line, right, it’s better outcomes, and also with their personal lives as well. But communication is a skill. And most people think they’re really good at it, despite the fact they’ve had no formal training. Or maybe they had to go to an HR conference. Most people think they’re good at it, despite the fact they’ve had no evaluation, no true peer feedback. So our workshops are for people who say, Hey, I could probably be a better leader. And I know sometimes my message doesn’t get across the way I’d like it to. I would love to connect with other professionals and learn how I can do this so that I quit wasting time, so that I quit having the conflicts with people that don’t want to change so that I can learn more about power dynamics.
To date, we have welcomed leaders from all ages, from over 30 professions and 22 countries, Australia, Mexico, Canada, Ireland, Japan, Brazil, we believe in that leadership is so much of a collaborative process, and that you can learn from people in a wide variety of fields. So if you’re better in the corporate realm, skip the stuffy seminars with the bad coffee. If you’re in the strength and conditioning realm. For once in your life, do not go to the massive mega conference that really just gonna give you presentations on 30 of the same things come and learn from a wide variety of leaders get into the messy realities. And let’s go.
The final thing I’ll tell you is this episode does have adult language. So if you’re listening with your kids in the car, be aware of that. We take great pride in this being an uncensored podcast, we do not want to come on and censor people, of course, we’re never going to celebrate it and just throw words around like crazy. But we’re all adults here and we understand that sometimes cuss words come out. And we want authentic interactions here. So once again, there is language in this podcast and also take this as just a heads up in any of our podcasts. Please be discerning of who’s in the car who’s around you or where you’re listening to it. Because that’s just the way the world is for those of you that have listened for a long time. You get it we value you want to go no holds barred here. All right. Without further ado, let’s talk about today’s guest
Wow, I’m gonna give you a little bit behind the scenes here. I usually record these introductions after the conversation. And I’m still reeling from this one. This surpassed my expectations in so many ways. And that is not meant as an insult to this guest or anything we had never met before, as is the case with many guests, but it just went in so many different directions that were wonderful. She gave so many tactical details that are going to help a lot of people. So I’m very excited to introduce Elisabeth Oehler. Now, Elisabeth is a strength coach, she has worked for the German weightlifting Federation. She’s a licensed weightlifting coach through the German Olympic sports Confederation, she worked in talent identification, which for those of you that aren’t nerds of the field, it is just about, hey, how do I identify youth that might be really good at this sport, or this activity. And there’s a lot of issues with that that we talked about. Because of course, an 11 year old is not half of a 22 year old, which is not half of a 44 year old. But there are also some unique insights there to learn for any manager, any leader, any coach, she’s also continuing to work as a full time coach and consultant for her own business EO performance. And now she helps organizations develop long term athletic development programs.
So I say this all the time, guys, no matter what field you’re in, I challenge you to find the lateral examples here. Because in this, we talked about toxic things in coaching culture, communicating with people that different backgrounds and languages, how to get people that don’t want to open up to open up and more importantly, why it’s important to not run from difficult coaching situations and challenging management situations. As well as finally, why the face of how we perceive communication needs to change. There’s still way too many people that hear that term and think that it’s about rah rah inspirational stuff, instead of the underpinning skill that is impactful to everything we do in life, whether it’s our job, whether it’s our relationships, our reputation, if you can’t communicate, you cannot compete. I’m so happy to be able to bring you this episode. dive in deep Remember to go to artofcoaching.com/reflections To get your free note taking pages and support Elisabeth because this is going in. Alright guys. Here we go.
Hey, everybody, welcome back. I am sitting here with Elisabeth Oehler. Elisabeth, thank you so much for joining me today.
Elisabeth Oehler 7:36
Yeah, thank you. I’m happy to be here.
Brett Bartholomew 7:38
Yeah, listen, I think you and I, it was nice talking off air. We both have a mutual disdain for superficial, highly scripted podcasts. And one of the things just to give our audience context, I was so glad it was one of the more positive things that comes out of Twitter, which can be a huge cesspool. But you had commented on something that I had mentioned about communication, you had expressed that you’ve always been fascinated by the communication space as a coach and how that’s been colored by, you know, your background and things that you’ve dealt with. So for anybody that may be skipped the intro, talk to us a little bit about why communication became so fascinating to you. And then we’ll dive into the meteor nature of that.
Elisabeth Oehler 8:16
Yeah. Yeah. So it’s always difficult to, or it’s always difficult for me to where that whole journey starts, because it probably started way before I got into sports. Like my interest into communication actually started with. And that’s something like I think a lot of people don’t know about me is like, I’ve been to law school. And I did a lot of work in mediation and alternative dispute resolution. And but at the same time, I’m a law school dropout. So I didn’t graduate. But I learned a lot during that time. And it also took me to a lot of places in the world. And I did a lot of work in NGBs or NGOs before I went into sports. And I’ve always been fascinated by how communication drives people and how it leads to change in people and how you can influence people to be better people through communication, but at the same time communication is also a tool that can change people to the worse and not to the better. So yeah, and like now I’m now skipping that whole Law School part and mediation and
Brett Bartholomew 9:41
no, don’t worry I’ll have you. come back to that, but just real quick for our audience that doesn’t know it NGO? NGBs. Could you go into that a little bit?
Elisabeth Oehler 9:50
Yeah. So NGOs is I work for nonprofit organizations before I went into sports so mainly A human rights organizations and NGB its national governing bodies does that’s in sport. That’s basically like, yeah, that’s a national organization that is organizing a sport, for example, USA weightlifting or USA lacrosse or USA Football. These are NGBs. Yeah,
Brett Bartholomew 10:23
I think that in it of itself, though, real quick, is super relatable to our a lot of our audience because you talked about your being your law school dropout and alternative mediation, but man, I think everybody listening is in a profession to some degree, were some governing board or some organization that’s rife with politics, right? Your background in that stuff absolutely feeds into the reality you still face as a coach, you know, and that’s the beautiful thing about communication is whether you’re a law school dropout, or whether you’re an internationally well known weightlifting coach, and somebody that’s worked with children and people of all backgrounds, people just know that you always have to deal with some, pardon my language, bullshit from governing bodies. And so I’m fascinated to hear how that’s continued to shape even the way you think, as a coach, right? Because if you went to law school, right, there’s an aspect of that, and I think also peeling back the layer that you’re clearly your heritage is one of German descent, right? A people that is known for being highly analytical. Of course, that’s not a monolith. But that feeds into everything you do. So what was the time? Yeah, how do you go from a law school to wanting to become a coach?
Elisabeth Oehler 11:40
Yeah, so basically, during law school, I was a weightlifter for fun. But I wasn’t bad. I was not really good. But also at the same time, not really bad. So and I lifted for, a team. We have like a national league here, where you lift in teams. And there was very nice pocket money while I was in, in law school. So it was basically a pretty cool student job. For me, like I lifted here in the league, and I got paid for competitions. And that’s what I was doing while I was in law school. So I never really while I was in law school, I never really thought about becoming a coach or something. But what I was doing at that time was, I was working for nonprofit organizations that were doing seminars for human rights topics like gender equality, or LGBTQ rights, or child protection. So I’ve traveled to quite a few countries and doing seminars there, and trying to interact and communicate with young people about those topics, because there are countries in the world where gender equality is seen very differently to what we do. And we always tried with those human rights organizations to influence young people to also have them influence on their communities and their peers, and maybe change their beliefs and change their way of thinking when it comes to certain topics, or certain human rights topics.
And like, that whole sports part was just like, I did that on the side for myself. At the end of like, I never really, I really enjoyed law school. But I didn’t really see myself as a lawyer. But I always like working with people and always like working and communicating with people and helping people to change themselves, and maybe also change some communities, or in a community they live in. And then I got involved, actually, just because of a friend and I know someone who asked me, you’re pretty good with young people, because I’ve done that before. You’re pretty good with young people from different backgrounds. Do you think you can teach them Like, can you teach a fitness class in elementary school? I was like, I’m not a coach, actually. But I can try. And I said like, yeah, if you can hold seminars in different countries, and you can interact with those young people there you will be able to teach some kids, something about sports.
And yeah, that’s how I got into coaching. And that was my first coaching experience was in an elementary school. It was a project with refugee kids. So it was German kids and and refugee kids that had certain subjects in that elementary school together. Like for example, they had like art, music, and then sports or physical education. These were the subjects that they could do together and where we could try to have that bonding or that integration between the kids, the refugee kids and the German kids. Because you don’t need to, you actually don’t need to talk to have communication. In those kinds of subjects, like music, kids can connect through music, they can connect through art, and sports, and you don’t need to be able to speak the language. So and this is like, Yeah, this is what how my coaching journey started in 2017, in an elementary school with German kids and refugee kids doing PE together? Yeah. that’s probably a very, very unusual story of how someone got into coaching.
Brett Bartholomew 15:47
No, I value it. And there’s a lot of things I want to ask you off of that. But and so I’m gonna ask you to forgive me. Let me talk some of this out just to bring our listeners back in and then formulate the question. You said a lot. Specifically, I want to hone in on you working with refugee kids, which I assume many of them just quickly, Did they speak a different language? A wide range of languages? Yes.
Elisabeth Oehler 16:09
Yeah. So it was mainly so we had in Germany in 2015, we had this, it was called the refugee wave. I don’t like that word, because it gives a very wrong impression. But we had a lot of refugees coming from Syria and Afghanistan at that time, there was when they were all coming over the Mediterranean Sea. And then they were in Italy, and Greece, and then it then we had that decision that this the country’s take on refugees. Germany took quite a few. And then they got into different towns and cities all over Germany. And the government gave a lot of money into projects that were kind of trying to, like first teaching them the language and integrating them into society. And yeah, it was I had a lot of the majority of kids I had were from Syria and Afghanistan, I had some from Eritrea, so they all spoke different languages. And they all some had been there since 2015. And when I started in 2017, some just shortly arrived. So it was a big mix of kids who couldn’t understand anything. And kids who could like had a very broken German already. So it was a very big mix.
Brett Bartholomew 17:39
The thing that I like about that is so and just, guys, if you’re listening at episode 89, we had a whole show about how to train youth athletes. So we’re not going to go there right now with Elisabeth, we’re going to key in on this communication, because this is so great, what you’re saying especially now there’s bias here, we teach at our apprenticeship communication workshops, we use improv as a means of helping people improve as communicators and self awareness for many reasons. And one of the things that ties into what you’re saying is, you know, the roots of much of improv with Neva Boyd and Viola Spolin was to help immigrant children who are trying to assimilate into the United States, and they didn’t speak that language. Right, they were able to use these theater games that had been adapted in order to better reach them and help them assimilate. Right.
And that’s the core of one of my questions for you, is when you’re working with kids, and this goes through our audience of it doesn’t even have to be kids, right? It’s people that speak a different language. What are some of the main things you did to try to connect with them to break that barrier? Down? I’m sure there’s so many. But can you share just a few things that You did?
Elisabeth Oehler 18:46
Yeah. I think something that I’ve been aware of from the beginning, and that’s something that I’ve learned, at my time doing seminars, for nonprofit organizations, or human rights seminars is the way I’m perceived, that sets the tone and that whole session or the way I present myself and the way how the even the first step into the room. if I step in with a smile makes a very makes a difference. than if I’ve step in, and I’m being busy, so planning, or something like that, so what I always try to do is being extremely positive, because in that setting, you don’t know first of all, you don’t know what these kids have been through. You don’t know that and it’s also you are not in that position to find out so that’s something I stayed away from because I’m not in a position as a PE teacher or as a coach, to try to find out what these kids have experienced. I think a lot of them have experienced quite a lot. And I’m not trained for, like, I’m not a counselor, or I’m not trying to, to find that out. So, and I think it’s always better or it has been better for me to set a very positive learning environment.
So what I did a lot, even though it probably was sometimes very fake, but like it still helps is like smiling and being open and showing them that I can trust you. Because you can’t, they can’t really they can’t really talk so everything or they can really speak to you. And at that time, sometimes we didn’t have a translator. So there was also very, very difficult then, because when I’m positive, they’re already feel better, or they already feel like more open. So this is something like body language or mimics and smiling, that’s been something I have done with in this group of kids, quite conscious, like I really tried to create that safe and open environment. And we did the same like in the core group setting. So we always try to start with a ritual where we all were singing a song and clapping a rhythm. Like I’m not really a clapping rhythm and singing song person, but like, it’s something I did for the kids because it gives them a bonding in that group. It’s something they understand, and it sets a positive tone for the rest of the session. So these are stuff, these are things that I was very aware of. And that way, I tried to have this very, I’ve tried to create a safe, safe environment and safe place for them. Because of what I don’t know they have been through. So yeah, this is basically how I started. And this is one of the main things I would recommend in such environment
Brett Bartholomew 22:14
and jumping in there. And I have a couple of things I want to ask you about based on what you said. And thanks for being so tactical and giving clear examples you had mentioned, I’m not a counselor, it’s not my job to find out what they’ve gone through. Now. We always try to play kind of helpful, devil’s advocate on this show. So let’s imagine somebody said, Well timeout. As a coach. Yeah, I understand that we’re not, you know, psychiatrists and what have you. And we, of course, can’t sit there and triage and psychoanalyze. But that said, there are plenty of people that come to us with their problems, right. I went to the grocery store the other day. And I asked the checkout clerk, you know how they’re doing. And they said, Man, I feel like I should have been a counselor, a lot of people are telling me about their problems today. So my main question to you is just for the coach that maybe is confused. You know, they might say, Well, wait a minute, I’m not supposed to ask people what they’ve gone through.
And I don’t think that’s what you’re saying, I think you’re saying a couple of things. And I want you to check me on it. One, you’re talking about people who don’t speak the native language. So there is an actual barrier there at first, two no matter how much you want to help. you don’t want to just dive in and start asking people deep things about their life. So I don’t think you’re saying but again, check me if I’m wrong. Hey, don’t take an interest in their lives. I think what you’re saying is, don’t come heavy handed to people that may have experienced trauma that don’t speak the native language. If they’re going to confide let them come to you a little bit. And then yes, it’s fine to be an ear. Is that what you’re saying with that?
Elisabeth Oehler 23:41
Yes, be a listener don’t actively approach those kids or whatever person you’re dealing with. Like, if they sometimes I had that at a later stage where a boy from Syria talked a bit about like, where he dropped like small snippets of his story, like every now and then. And I had to actively listen. And I put it all together over time. But I’ve never really actively approached them and asked them Oh, what did you like? What happened? What did you experience like these very open or these very dark questions? I never did that. I tried to listen. And especially with that young boy. He was like just dropping very small snippets of his story like and if, like I wrote all of that down actually in a diary to put all these puzzle pieces together and maybe get an impression of the story. But I’ve never really felt like okay, I have to ask because I have to ask him now or I have to force them now to continue that whole story. And I was trying to be a good listener. And I think that’s one of the most important things is, if you’re working in such a group, or if you are dealing with these people, is listen, and not just listen in the moment, but try to keep it. And of course, we can’t keep everything in our minds, we can’t, but then find the system for yourself where you write it down. And I’ve been always great with journals, and also writing my straining sessions. And so I’ve wrote stuff like that down even if it was just one sentence about something. And at the end of the, or after, while, everything maybe makes sense, if you go through it, that takes a lot of like that takes. And honestly, that takes also a lot of personal interest into that. And sometimes it’s also difficult to not take it home. And that’s something that happened to me quite a lot. During that time. I took a lot of that home, and couldn’t really stop. But that journal helped me to not do that. So yeah,
Brett Bartholomew 26:12
yeah, well, and I’m quoting,
Elisabeth Oehler 26:14
That’s a whole new thing
Brett Bartholomew 26:16
you touched on a good point, they’re taking a personal interest, because one, one excuse I’ve never liked, that I heard when I wrote conscious coaching was some coaches saying, Well, I have such a large group that I can’t sit there and figure them all out, I can’t do this. And to me, that was just so lazy to say that, you know, and I’m like, because they tried making it sound like what we were saying is that you have to sit there and interview everybody, right? Like you have to have them on this couch. And it was never that it’s no you interact with these people. And I’ve coached groups of 70, I’ve coached groups of 100, I’ve coached groups of one, you interact with them in small ways throughout time. And so what I had created, for lack of a better term is we have this kind of personality kind of recording sheet. It’s not like a personality profile, like a disk or what have you. But basically would say, you know, their name, hobbies interests, if they come from a rural area or urban area, did they have siblings? What were things outside of sport or their, you know, whatever else they like to do? I mean, no category was too small. And what I would do is they would have, you know, over 100 spaces, and as you just carry around in that clipboard, so if I had noticed that I was going from the training session recording their soreness, or what have you, you know, I would also have this stuff down. If somebody have a what do you do this weekend? Oh, I went to my brother’s, how many brothers you got? Well, I have three siblings, boom, boom, boom, okay, that goes down in the sheet. I don’t worry about filling everything else out. That’s what I got from that person that day. And so then we ended up putting it in our online course, I have an online course calledj Bought In as a downloadable thing. But then what we found is some coaches just want the information of courses and research. But they don’t want to do the work, right.
And that’s, why I’m so glad you brought up you have to care. Because even if these resources are available, even if you made your system, or I made mine available for everybody else, so few coaches do it, because I feel like they’re still just too in love with the training. They’re too in love with the training and not enough in love with the people and the process. I mean, any thoughts on that? I mean, we obviously see this huge disparity in coach development, there’s nothing that focuses exclusively on communication. It’s a bridge, we’re trying to or at the gap we’re trying to bridge. But to me, it was just crazy. It’s crazy that we have coaches that have fetishized training, instead of the process of interacting with people. And I’d love to hear your thoughts on that. And maybe what you think it’s going to take to get us out of that.
Elisabeth Oehler 28:33
Yeah. So first, maybe a few words about the system. I think when you create a system for yourself, for example, to write such stuff, yes, it’s such stuff down, you need to commit to that process. And you need to also give it your own note, otherwise, it’s not gonna work, I always try to compare it with, you can play a game with kids. It’s a super fun game with the one coach. And if you play the exact same game with a coach who’s miserable, or who’s yelling, and all the time, and who’s actually not really engaging into it, that wonderful game can be shitty for kids too. So it’s like, if you have such a system, then you really have to commit to it and you have to find your way of how it works for you.
And second, I think what’s very important, and that’s what a lot of, I think what a lot of coaches maybe are not aware of is awareness. You have to be very if you’re working with athletes, and even if it’s a big group, it’s like it’s constantly looking around or for me it’s always been like constantly looking around and trying to find small details in how kids behave or what they doing, or how they interact with others. And then I always try to make sense out of that. So I think what a lot of people, or a lot of coaches, especially strength and conditioning coaches, what they don’t see like they’re so focused on their program, and so focused on like the exercises and the progression and load, whatever, that they lack the awareness of the people and how they interact with each other. And communication in coaches education, that’s a very like, it’s a very, for me, it’s a very interesting topic, because as I said, in other fields, for example, what I did before, in that mixture of human rights, activism and politics, their communication has been a major part in all education. So basically, when before I was sent to a seminar, I was in I was an Ivory Coast and 2016. One was a completely different culture I’ve never dealt with before. I was in Turkey in 2013, during the protests there, the first thing every organization did with me was sending me to a communication seminar. It was the first thing, it was not, I didn’t even have to learn that much about the facts of the country, or I didn’t really have to learn that much about what was going on there. But the first thing they always send me to was like a communication, mediation dispute resolution seminar. And that’s what it’s not happening in coaching. And so not happening in sports. We always shy when I look at Coach’s education here in Germany, we always we do a lot we have to get licensed in Germany as a coach for a specific sport. Takes a lot of time, I think my first license that I did, I had to do like 150 taught hours. I don’t think you do that. And then the US in any sport, but from that 150 hours, I had two hours of pedagogy and communication. And the rest is just it’s like physio it. All of that is important anatomy, physiology. All of that is important in my opinion as a coach. But the question is, I can get all of that from a book as well, like, especially the theory, and then I should actually be able and then I have to practice applying it. But the communication and especially having case studies in ascertaining settings, that has never really happened and coaching education, and I think that’s something that’s really holding that whole industry back. It’s it. Yeah, that’s how I see it.
Brett Bartholomew 32:59
And you mentioned Well, I mean, that specifically is not something you can learn just from a book. And I’m saying that much my own chagrin, because I wrote a book on it right, but you’re spot on in that, you know, Jones armor. InfoTrac wrote this awesome article that basically said, Hey, coaching is a social endeavor. And I’m going to paraphrase and I’ll read from it, while sports specific organizational physiological and psychological tools are necessary. If coaches lack this sensitivity to act appropriately, within dynamic social and educational environments, they’re going to struggle to achieve their intentions of improving quality of both performance and participation. And so, you know, this is why. And it speaks to exactly what you said, How is it that we have just two hours of that, or 6% of coach development workshops when other industries are spending upwards of 365 billion now they have their problems as well.
And something that’s been interesting for us talk about a case study is when we first launched our workshops, we wanted to make sure that they were super Erna interactive. So let’s say you had come and I’d love for you to come as our guests, right, it’s on the house, it’s on us. We do role playing, we do video breakdowns, we do peer review, people are up engaging and interacting. But what I found is, you know, we thought then when we put these out that wow, this is a missing space and coach development, and so many other industries want to have us out. Coaches are gonna love this because there’s a clear need for it. The research says there’s a need, and thankfully, we’ve sold most of them out. But it’s still tough, because so many coaches have been hooked on the drug of training stuff for so long, you know, and they don’t forget the training. Like, it’s weird because coaches want to say they want to be servant based, but then what they’re doing is fixating on content that is more about their own interests, their own interests are the training ad nauseam. Where is the thing that’s gonna allow you to connect with that kid from a different country or a different background or it doesn’t even have to be a kid right? Just a human being is the communication piece at the end of the day. those people.
And we asked coaches, Elisabeth Hey, how do you want to be known, respected, trusted this and that? Or those are things that happen as a byproduct of communication and relationships. Nobody just trusts you, because you’re just great. At the technical side of things, that’s part of it, yes, because that will help with the results. But it just seems like there’s so much cognitive dissonance. And I almost have to wonder, right? Was there ever a time in your life, where you felt like, Yeah, I’m not sold on communication, or if there was a workshop, I wouldn’t even want to go to it. What would make some of these skeptics, cynics? Or maybe people that are just kind of like, not self aware? What’s gonna make them wake up one day and be like, Yep, this is what I need to go to, and maybe look at yourself or a past version of yourself, as a case study if there was one?
Elisabeth Oehler 35:47
Yeah, I think it takes a lot of, first of all, it takes a lot of reflection, and it takes a lot of, and I had to go through that as well. I always, I thought in order in the beginning of my I was coaching, I also thought like, I’m a pretty good communicator. And I’ve done already a lot of communication seminars, even though it wasn’t a different field, but like, people are people and it doesn’t really make a difference if they are young people in politics, arts, music, or if they’re young people in sports, young people or young people. And it I also thought, I’m a pretty good communicator. But every time I came into a different setting, I felt like I’ll maybe I’m not because like what I did, how I communicated with those with the group I had before or with those athletes that have I had before, that doesn’t work with this group specifically.
Brett Bartholomew 36:56
Quick break in the action here. And you know, it’s common, there is a lot of irony about the fact that when you ask most leaders how they want to be known, they will say, as somebody that made a difference is somebody that’s trusted as somebody who’s respectful as somebody that blank, all these things, tie back to relational elements of leadership. All these things do and building better relationships and getting more buy in comes down to how you communicate. So if you want resources on how to do this, and you want to stand out from the crowd in the right way, and you know, everybody around you is going to the same conferences, but very few of them are focusing on improving self awareness, their messaging, and how they can improve and better understand what makes people tick. Check us out, we have so many courses online artofcoaching.com/courses some of those have strength conditioning, terminology, and them, but they’ve been adopted and adapted by many different professions, just like the book on my shelf that was written by a member of the military, but as lessons for me, or if you want to do this in real time, live with me and my colleagues, go to artofcoaching.com/apprenticeship. All of our live events are there. So please don’t DM or email say when you come into my city, if you just go to artofcoaching.com/apprenticeship and you click on attend a live apprenticeship, you will see at all there’s payment plans, there are discounts, Early Bird discounts, many of them are probably going on right now for the next year. So check them out. You can also host an apprenticeship. We have done these in parking lots, boardrooms, ballrooms, gyms, wherever, once again, just go to artofcoaching.com/apprenticeship. Click on where it says host and apprenticeship, and we will get you underway. All right back to the episode.
Elisabeth Oehler 38:43
I also thought I’m a pretty good communicator. But every time I came into a different setting, I felt like oh, maybe I’m not because like what I did, how I communicated with the group I had before or with those athletes that I had before, that doesn’t work with this group specifically. So this is where I figured out for myself, I need to change, not them. And I think a lot of coaches need to understand that as well. It’s not you can’t come from one or you can’t coach everyone the same way. And just because something worked with a certain group, or even if it works with like, a lot of young people doesn’t mean it automatically works with that other group of young people. So and I think a lot of coaches think that the kid the kids have to change or they have to get used to the way like the coach communicates. But I think it’s the other way around. I have to change my way of commonly communicating. And sometimes I can’t change that by myself and I need someone else who may be gives me who’s maybe mentoring me through that situation or that new, or that new group of athletes or I need someone who gives me like input or inspiration to rethink how I communicated before, and how I’m going to progress in my communication. And I think this is so self awareness and reflection about okay, it’s not, they have to change, but I do. I think that’s something a lot of coaches have to understand. And then you maybe also realize you’re not the good communicator that you think you are, and you need help, like, everyone needs help.
Brett Bartholomew 40:46
It’s okay, it’s okay.
Elisabeth Oehler 40:48
Yeah. And It’s so funny. for me that everyone is always with that I’m a lifelong learner. But Lifelong Learning always just comes to sport scientific stuff, or evidence, or new studies that come out about physiology, or new training methods. But they never apply that lifelong learning, philosophy to communication, they that’s something that’s pretty odd for me, actually. And I think that’s something maybe odd for the listeners that are listening now must understand, like, lifelong learning is not just facts, it’s not just the hard skill part, lifelong learning is also the social skill part. And, yeah, I really hope that this is gonna improve in the future. But I honestly must say now, or I’m not doing my own business for a long time now, but like, for my experiences so far have been. I’ve tried to get communication, especially with kids and young people into the office that I make. But a lot of people want to have solutions. but fixed, like solutions that can be applied the next day. But that doesn’t really automatically work with communication.
I’ve done one of my modules in my course, is called Making strength training fun for kids. And I think everyone was expecting, I’m gonna show now all the games that I play, I’m going to show like, I’m going to do a whole catalogue of exercises and games that are fun. But that’s not how making it fun works. Making a phone works is you as a coach, having a positive coaching philosophy, the way you interact with the kids, the way they respect you, the way they experience everything. It has nothing to do sometimes as games, it all has something to do with you. And I’m not sure if a lot of our coaches understand that.
Brett Bartholomew 43:00
No, no, I don’t think they do. And I’ve, you know, begrudgingly tried to psychoanalyze this, you know, in many ways, whether that’s in my scope or not, right? I’m a very curious person, but we try to get to the core of these things. Because you’re right, people say they want to be lifelong learners. And they want to be known as a trusted, respected coach this and that. But then the dissonance of not understanding that comes from communication. So we went down a rabbit hole. And we were like, Well, why is it that, you know, so much of this is centered around X’s and O’s, right? Why are so many people so fetishized around, just the training and the training and the drills and the nuances. And I found something really interesting in an article it says, Well, if a technical or tactical emphasis or even something that aligns with like a tool, right, a piece of technology, or what have you, that aligns with this traditional conceptualization, of coach effectiveness, meaning, oh, we got a nicer training facility, or we brought in a more experienced coach, or what we’re utilizing a new form of training, or there’s new drills, and people perceive that as being less difficult to measure objectively.
And to your point, you know, it the reality is they’re actually not, you know, when you look at measuring communication, you can look at the field of marketing, you can look at the field of, well, let’s just stick with marketing for a minute. I think people forget that, you know, companies pay millions of dollars to create advertisements that connect with an audience. And these, are things that are literally trying to say, what’s the perspective of the individuals I’m trying to reach, then they try to help them understand that Google Analytics, all the human behavior is one of the most quantifiable things there is.
I think, another thing, Elisabeth, and I’d love to open this up to your your feedback. What coaches have to recognize or come to terms with is, it’s a very insecure field. And it’s not just coaching. There’s many fields like this, but because you can have the best training tactics and the best technology and the best facilities possible. And you can’t guarantee successful outcomes with your team or your athlete, or let’s just say the learner, the performer, coaches are constantly looking for something to fill that hole of insecurity, because they can’t say, I’m the best based on this, because the performances of those they coach are not under their complete control. So then it’s easier to say, Well, I did this, or, I’ve used this tool, or I have this goal, because it’s something tangible, and for our audience not able to see this right, I’m holding something up. And that’s what makes them feel better about themselves, because they need to feel like they’ve made a difference. But that comes from the relational aspect. And it’s not either or, but the relational aspect will enhance the training aspect. The training aspect will not always enhance the relational, you know, it’s kind of like personal and professional, if you have a better personal life, you’re a more fulfilled professional, and you can spend more time on that. But just a better professional life does not always enhance our personal life, feel free to riff on any of that, if any of it strikes a chord with you.
Elisabeth Oehler 46:00
Yeah, I think it’s, it has also a lot to do with goal setting as a coach, and what goals you actually have, and what goals you have of that group. And I honestly, like I don’t judge coaches that much that just have goals that are, they just want to win. It’s part of sports, and it will never it’s one of the main aims of sports. But what I don’t like and what I really, where sometimes, like, I get very sarcastic when I read such stuff, is when coaches have this, actually, their whole goal is winning, but they try to sell that as well as they are raising kids they want to be they are raising men, and they are growing, are they developing those young people. And but they neglect that whole relationship part in that team or in that sport in that setting. I think that’s very fake. And if you are just there for winning, then admit, and then be open about it. But don’t try to cover up, like your lack of awareness for relationship building and communication with talking about it. I don’t know how many coaches I’ve met so far here in Germany, and also in other countries, that really think that they are developing young people and they are advocating young people, but at the end of the day, they closing their eyes every time when it’s about winning, that’s something like I have an ethical problem with that. Or I had that before and in a team setting.
It’s coaches that for example, let me give an example. So to explain what I mean, I had coaches that were very direct with our we are we are developing young boys here. And we want them to be better people, we want them to grow up and like have all these personality development through the sport. And winning as a part of it. And Winning is important. And that’s cool. And I every time like we won, or every time that team won. That whole personality part was forgotten afterwards. Because you also have to talk with young people about winning and what it means and how you behave after that. And that’s where a lot of coaches then stop communicating. And so it turned out for example, with that team that I was working with. It turned out that they were winning and they were after that they were pretty nasty to the opponent. But it coach completely went over that because that whole winning part was done. And then he forgot about his whole personality development.
But so what I’m trying to say is like don’t like especially as a coach with young athletes. Be honest about your goals and be honest about and evaluate what you’re actually doing because a lot of coaches don’t do what they pretend to do or they don’t do what they claim to do. I don’t know I read that every day while we are growing we are developing young men here and that program and then I think look at what they doing. You’re not developing them. You’re, actually just about the sport so don’t don’t worry 10 plays it takes a lot more. And it takes a lot more education and takes a lot more intervention from your side as the coach, if you claim that you are caring about that relationship and personality building part two, yeah. I hope that made sense. Now. I think I was like all over the place.
Brett Bartholomew 50:21
It makes sense, because what we’re talking about is people running from the hard things, the gray area, the things that are a little bit tougher, opaque, you know, the things that make us change more than anything else, right? If all of a sudden I write a program or you know, anybody listening to this, right, let’s say they have a business plan or what have you. And some aspect doesn’t jive, they can erase and change that. But a lot of coaches when they hear they need to refine communication or their social skills, what some of the insecure ones, here is what you’re telling me I’m not good enough? And who the hell are you? Instead of them just being receptive, they get defensive, you know,
And within this, we’re gonna switch gears a little bit and go into a case study. Now, this is an actual question I received via Instagram. And I’ll read it thoroughly. I’m not going to give the name because we want to respect the privacy. And I’ll kind of get to the core of it, but that I’d love to hear your take on it. Okay, cuz it speaks to what you’re saying about how sometimes we’re steered the wrong direction. Is that fair to you? Are you good to listen? Alright.
Elisabeth Oehler 51:19
Brett Bartholomew 51:20
Alright, so a coach reached out and said, Hey, and I always love by the way, this is me being. I’m sure I’m just being grumpy. But I’m, from a part of the United States that you never just reach out. Hey, you know, like you would be? Hey, Elisabeth, or Hi, Coach blank, right. But anyway, hey, I have a question that I’ve been very conflicted about in regards to coaching college teams, I work at a college or again for international audiences, right university that did not have any strength and conditioning programs in place. But unexpectedly, I was offered a strength coach position for the baseball and the cheer team. I have a master’s in exercise science. And I’ve coached CrossFit mixed martial arts and high school athletes before I love it. Now mind you, there’s a thing I love it, which I’m wondering what he loves here. So I took this role on a volunteer basis running the program, the baseball team is an awesome group of athletes to work with, they’re dedicated, they put in the work. However, the cheer team is the opposite. They’re always on their phones, even when I’m going over the movements. Because some have never touched a weight. They only do half this sets or reps, and some will even walk out of the gym and disappear for the remainder of the workout. They’re just totally uninterested in working out. I don’t want to get too strict and lose them all together. But I’m very tempted to drop them and work with another team. Any recommendations?
So what we have just to consolidate that is a coach, you know, and I’m sure they mean, well, they’re very enthusiastic. they’ve worked with, some teams that have a lot of enthusiasm regarding training. However, they’re now working with a team that doesn’t. And they want to know, should they just quit working with that team? Now? I’m not going to give my answer up front, because I don’t want to influence you. I’d love for you to kind of give your take on how would you even respond or advise this coach?
Elisabeth Oehler 53:23
Yeah, so first of all, taking a college position on a volunteer basis. No, no, I’m not from the US. I would not do that. If we want to ever want to have change in our strength and conditioning field, we have to get paid and we have to demand getting paid. This is yeah, I’m like I’ve been I think I’ve been conflicted on that as but please like, if it’s a college, they can afford you. They don’t want to afford you they can. So there will be the first thing I would say. And then it’s so we have a baseball team and our cheer team. So complete different groups and also complete different. Probably they got raised, or they grew up in the sport system with completely different backgrounds. A cheer team probably never got told that it’s important to do strength training, for injury prevention, and also for performance aspects, etc. So but the baseball guys they are the baseball team. They probably heard that since they were a little kid said it’s important to do strength training. So it’s like we have to first of all we have to look at those two groups and see the difference in how they how they Yeah, how they grew up. And then I assume that the cheer team is predominantly girl or young girls, then we have that extra problem of young girls still having a lot of problems with strength training because of misconceptions that they hear somewhere, they don’t want to get bulky, they are scared of getting bigger, etcetera. Baseball guys don’t have probably the majority of them doesn’t have those concerns.
So in that situation like that lack of motivation, or if I was the coach, I first would try to find out, what is the source of their unmotivated behavior? So why are they thinking like that? And the first thing is to try to communicate with them and ask them like, Have you ever done? Have you ever thought about that? Or do you have any concerns about it? Should we maybe do, the next step would be to think about having maybe a female coach in or a female athlete that’s talking about all those misconceptions that still exist. And maybe also being an example that shows training doesn’t make you bulky, or doesn’t make you bigger, or whatever they are scared of. I think the first thing for coaches, especially when they work with completely different groups, is try to understand the reality of those kids are those young athletes, is like the reality of those cheerleaders is a complete different to the baseball guys. They also have a probably the cheerleader, probably also have a complete different approach on what they doing. They don’t have probably the majority of doesn’t have that attention of going pro, it doesn’t mean that they are not disciplined in what they doing. But they have like a complete different future plan. So try to understand their realities, where they come from, what the goals are, what are their concerns about that? And try to build trust over education and communication with them.
And then, for me, what always work does, if I’m working with a group, use their language. If you can, it’s very easy probably for me, because I’m still young. It’s sometimes I think, a lot of chat, I’ve made a lot of change in groups that I had in the beginning didn’t connect with, in the way I changed talking to them and talk in their language, I use words that they that I probably wouldn’t use in a professional setting, but they use and I tried to have this connection over, I understand where you’re coming from and I understand your world. I think that’s one of the biggest mistakes a lot of youth coaches do is demonizing a lot of things that young people do, like being on their phones, tick tock is the best example for me. I don’t know every coach I think makes fun of kids doing TikToks. But that’s their reality. That’s how they live. And that’s if we ridiculous them for that they’re not gonna build trust with us. Internally, I can think Tik Tok is the is really one of the most stupid things that existed in the last 10 years. But at the same time, it’s kids do that. So try to understand why they’re doing that and try to not look down on them. And I think especially connecting with cheerleaders, try to understand their world their world is different than the baseball guy as well. So try to at least and give them that feeling that you understand them and I think then you get kind of get an A by and much quicker. If they feel like oh, that’s that’s not the way or I don’t want to deal with the weight room guy. When the weight room guys cool and the weight room guy kind of and they feel like oh, the weight room guy understands me or understands where I’m coming from. They are more likely to start training with you and yeah, that’s how I would move out or how I would deal with that situation.
Brett Bartholomew 59:42
Yeah, well and I get I appreciate the in depth nature of it. It’s easy to see that you’ve actually coached right because you’ve take those perspectives that show it and there’s this self awareness that only comes from doing things the wrong way before right and knowing. So that’s it’s super charming and inspiring. And to see that, ya know, it’s evident that you’ve coached just by the nature of the answer. But in my piece of that,if it’s worthwhile to share and just piggyback off of it, the the old man and me, first of all, just kind of took a hard nosed approach where I said, Hey, no, don’t drop this team. You know, coaching is about learning what makes people tick, you know, and I said, it’s not about just training, just any more than being a CPA is about numbers. And I, you know, I’d said, if you only work with people that are super motivated, and that’s all you want to do, then I don’t know that you can even call yourself a coach, because you’re cherry picking that right? I have a friend, that’s a firefighter, you know, like, everybody seems to want to be saved in the moment. However, not everybody’s grateful for like, you know, the other things or the way that they might go about it. He’s literally told me that some people were angry that they removed them from a burning building, you know, and stuff. And so I go, your job is to figure out how to engage people. And then finally, I just said, you know, lazy coaches run away from this and give up, how would dropping this team make you a better coach. And so you know, I haven’t gotten a response yet. I usually don’t after you try to make people think.
But I can speak to this because I worked with a baseball team at Southern Illinois University, football and basketball, but then I also had to be the head strength coach for the cheerleading team, which you’re right, it was predominantly young women. And then I also worked with the dance team was more young women. Okay. And so I’m going to read off some notes that I took while you were chatting, because it made me think of some things that I would tell them one, you know, this isn’t even a really a training question. It’s an engagement question. They’re not engaged. And when people are engaged, and you elucidated to this, like, when people like you, when you listen to them, where you take an interest in them, they’re more likely to change your behavior and listen to you. That’s just a basic human principle. I think also, some coaches Miss where they struggle, Elisabeth is, in their mind, they have this optimal training plan, right? They want them to train hard, and squat and clean and snatch. But optimal and successful are very different. And that’s on a chronological scale of if you have people that are averse to strength training, and I know I did when I worked with cheer and dance, sometimes we just use some kettlebells, and bodyweight stuff, some suspension trainers. And then the irony is, by the time I left this school, we had people squatting and dead lifting and cleaning. And people would come in and say, why are the cheerleaders doing snatches? You know, and there’s many reasons why they should do snatches and cleans and what have you. But I looked at this is such a fun challenge. I looked at this and said, My, you know, I’m going to be competitive with myself, if I’m a coach, I’m going to get them to buy into this, by the end of this, I promise you. Now, um, another thing that I wrote down, and you did a great job talking about this is reminding that like information is not going to change your behavior. You know, and I’m reminded of this constantly have a 300 page book, three online courses, we have a 16 hour live workshop, you’re gonna be episode like 192 or 193 of the podcasts. And yet I have coaches that will reach out to me and ask the same question 300 times that because they haven’t read the book, they haven’t done the courses, they haven’t done your courses, they haven’t done any of these things. And so if information change behavior, a lot of them talking about, hey, this is what strength training does, it actually won’t make you bulky, right. Like, if it actually worked that way, then we’d see it work that way. In totality, it doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile. I certainly gave articles to my young women and said, hey, here are some myths, here are some facts, but not beyond a point.
This is also something to be done with social factors, is I did find at least three to four women on that team that love to train. And what I did is I kind of gamified it, when they were training, I’d give them some, you know, other little things that they could do at the end. Or if they wanted to do more abs, they could do more, you know, I found ways to kind of gamify it. And then what the rest of the team saw is, well, how come make it to do this. Now, some might say that’s exclusionary, it wasn’t everybody’s still got to do a little bit of what they wanted. But there was more autonomy given to the athletes who were more consistent. And we know that autonomy, mastery and purpose feeds people, you know, like that feeds that engagement, that interaction. I think another thing that you said that was really, well put is presence and perception matters. You know, in our workshop, we have this entire evaluation where we go over how to score people on verbal and nonverbal, but we also have an entirely separate category for presents. And I think you’d agree, but athletes can tell. Let’s say you and I are on the cheer team and we walk in, if that person is not pumped to work with us, we’re going to be able to see it on their face. We’re going to be able to see it in their energy and all that and so I think a lot of coaches, if they were realistic with themselves would videotape themselves and they’d be like, Oh, no, yeah, there are nonverbal ways that I’m communicating a lack of desire here that when the guys Come in that want to bang and Clang, you know, I’m killing it. And so you know, it’s do you understand their world? Are you aware of social factors? Are you tailoring your messaging? Are you making it fun? Basically? Do you know your audience? And are you self aware? Everything you said? Anything else you want to tie on to that?
Elisabeth Oehler 1:05:17
No, I don’t have to add anything. It just I think that’s one of the things, understanding young people and this new generation, or this generation that we’re dealing with now, I think that’s something where we have to do a lot better. Because we’re still trying so many old outdated methods in communicating with them. But they are different, and they are not, taking that much. And like in Germany, we allowed to spare but in America think we came down and taking them on bullshit and that much bullshit anymore. like you can’t talk to kids the same way like you did maybe 10 years ago, or even five years ago. So it’s a way like we have to change our communication and also be more on like, and understand their realities. Way more. I’ve actually had a it’s a very like, and I think then I’m done with telling stories. But that’s something that changed my view on how to interact with young people a lot, or I’m still thinking about it, I haven’t processed this whole thing. But a kid the other day said to me, I’m not holding doors open to old people anymore. They fucked up the climate,
Brett Bartholomew 1:06:41
oh, my God, what? And I was like, He’s not gonna hold open doors for old people
Elisabeth Oehler 1:06:47
For old people because they are responsible for climate change.
Brett Bartholomew 1:06:54
There’s so many things wrong with that statement.
Elisabeth Oehler 1:06:56
And I was like, Okay, how am I gonna deal with those kids? Like, I’m still like, I’m still either at a point where I’m thinking like, how am I going to deal with this generation? How am I going to communicate with them? And like, what is the right way, because this is not the first time that I’m hearing something like that from like, oh, this older generation, even like all these older people, they have done so much wrong in this society. And we have to suffer from that. Maybe that’s a German thing. I don’t know if that’s in the US. But like, these young people are very much aware way more aware of what is going on in society than for example, my generation was, like, at that age, I didn’t care about such things at all, the age of 14 15, I didn’t care about anything that was going on in society. But this new kids that I’m working with now, or that I’m coaching, now, they are and they have a lot of respect for or they don’t have this, this natural authority of older people, or people that are older than them, that doesn’t exist anymore. And this is why they they, for example, are on their phones and just leave the room. I don’t think like I would have never done that. Like I would have never left the room. Back in the days like it when there was an older when there was a coach or a teacher, whatever. But kids now do that.
Brett Bartholomew 1:08:39
Well, yeah, and it doesn’t matter if you and I would do that, like kids, you can deal with the world as you’d like it to be or as it is. And I even saw this in strength coaches, I mean, when I came up in my field, there was no you know, do not get on social media, it was beat into my head do not have a brand, I could not have a brand. You know, I worked for organizations that would not allow that and what have you and and that’s not good or bad. It just was. But then what we realize is things have changed coaches that said they’d never get on social media or on social media, you know, whether I like it or not, I understand that I have to have a presence on it for certain things if I want to make a change, and what have you. And so, you know, it leads me into when we’ve talked about a lack of self awareness. And this will be my final kind of question. And it’s going to be wrapped in kind of a statement just to give you context and set you up for success here. You know, when it comes to self awareness that comes from skin in the game, right, putting yourself out there willingness to be criticized. So what I always found weird is when coaches when I wrote my book or whatever, they’d be like, oh, a real coach would never do this, or they’d never do that, especially at that age, because ageism exists at both ends, right? Oh, somebody’s too young Oh, somebody’s too old or whatever. And yet, a lot of them were mad just because they wanted to have a platform. So they’d get mad because they weren’t seen as an industry leader or what have you. So they’ve vilify other people that did these things. And then really what they were scared of is they were scared of putting themselves out there. They don’t want to admit it. But a lot of coaches, it’s not social media or technology or not wanting to have a brand. They’re scared of putting themselves out there, because it’s hard.
And you’re somebody that’s created courses, you’ve created a brand yourself yet you are a no nonsense highly respected, well educated coach, you know, like, what level of awareness did that bring you now that you have to see yourself when you’re making videos, or maybe ads for your courses? Or even this when this is published? Right? Like, how much has that helped you become more self aware and thus become a more effective coach and turn all because you were willing to say, Screw old conventions? I’m putting myself out there?
Elisabeth Oehler 1:10:50
Yeah, I think what really helped me, especially this year, or already the last year, dealing with criticism, and dealing with people that don’t share your opinion, because I pretty much I put a lot out there. And I probably also put a lot of controversial stuff out there. I’m pretty like I’m, as you probably seen before, like, I sometimes use language that probably wouldn’t be appropriate, or there wouldn’t be like in a, I don’t always talk 100% professional. And that also happens sometimes on social media, then I pray something wrong. And then I get a lot of backlash, especially working with kids in strength, or doing strength training with kids is probably one of the things where you get a lot of hate and a lot of backlash, and a lot of criticisms, or most of the time for no reason. But for me, it’s been, I think I’ve learned a lot through social media. In the way I like, I’m pretty good at filtering now I’m pretty good at, or I’ve developed a feeling for which criticism I can take serious and what criticism I just have to overlook and what I should know this thing. And that also helps me with coaching in a way that sometimes the reactions of young people or young athletes that I’m working with, sometimes it helps me also filtering their reactions on certain things.
Like for example, sometimes they react in a way where I’m like, Oh, I’m just gonna go over this now because that’s nothing I should take serious. And sometimes they react, or they give me feedback where I say, like, Okay, this is like, there’s something deeper, or this is something very serious. And I have to be aware of that. So and I think for me, like putting my work out there help me a lot with this filtering and giving and having awareness for important stuff and unimportant stuff. And yeah, that’s but I will say, and then I honestly say sometimes social media is hard. And it’s hard
Brett Bartholomew 1:13:22
Always all the time.
Elisabeth Oehler 1:13:23
It’s sometimes very unreasonable and irrational, and it’s sometimes for me, it’s what are really, sometimes it also bothers me and then I question why put myself out there, but I think that’s also part of the process. And that’s the same experience I’m making in coaching as well. On my coaching journey has been pre has been a huge roller coaster, in the last few years, I had super cool experiences. And I had like, very low phases where I was questioning if I want to be in that industry, and that’s really reflective on social media as well. Sometimes I read through my feed, and then I’m like, Oh, do I really want to deal with this industry anymore. Because that’s just a load of a lot of load of misinformation and, and a completely different philosophy and culture that I want. For me, like culture, and sport is something that is really important to me personally, and I don’t agree with a lot of things that coaches do and how they create their cultures. But it’s something I have to deal with and it’s actually very reflective on the actual coaching journey.
Brett Bartholomew 1:14:44
Yeah, well, I mean, you social media is absolutely hard for everybody. I mean, I don’t care for it either. Right? It’s it’s like kind of necessary evil at the same time. Like, I know, if I wasn’t on it, people might not come to the podcast or find out about the book or your resources or what Have you right? So it’s just like anything whether we like it or not, technology is going to continue to advance. And we talked about this all the time, we had a great coach on Nikolai Morris, it talked about the advantages of social media. I think the biggest issue I have with it is the learned helplessness is when people expect for all their questions to be answered over a medium that is not context rich, you know, and there’s been plenty of times I say, hey, you know, we’re gonna do a podcast on this, check it out. Well, I don’t listen to podcasts. Why can’t you just answer me here? And I’m like, well, because it turns out, you know, like, DMs are not a great place for, you know, deeper conversation.
But listen, you and I could do an entirely separate episode on this, we have to have you back. You’ve enchanted me, I want to have you out. I know. COVID is what it is. But I will not quit hounding you. Until you come to one of our workshops. I respect your work immensely. I can’t thank you enough for reaching out via Twitter. I’m glad I saw it. Because frankly, I get on Twitter, and I get off as quickly as possible. We want to support you, our listeners do, where can they go to learn more about you support your courses, we’ll put all the links in the show notes. But tell us sell yourself. We want to show up for you.
Elisabeth Oehler 1:16:08
Yeah, so I have a website at the moment. Or because of COVID. I actually had planned a whole workshop tour this year, but because of COVID Didn’t really work. But now, since I’m fully vaccinated, and the borders are pretty much open here in Europe. I’m open to do workshops in Europe. I’m doing a workshop in weightlifting, take about weightlifting techniques in Portugal next month. And I’m always happy if someone wants to host a workshop. And then I have like, as I said, the strength training for kids quiz on my website. I’m not good with Instagram. I don’t know these algorithms also don’t really work for me, but I’m pretty active on Twitter, so you can follow me on Twitter. And then it’s Yeah, I’m pretty. I try to answer everything by what I don’t do anymore is giving constantly free advice. I’ve created so much content. I’m gonna give out constantly free advice to everyone. So if someone has waited to question so example then yeah, tried to find the next workshop.
Brett Bartholomew 1:17:27
Yep, yeah, well, I love it. Well, I can’t thank you enough for coming on and chatting with a stranger. This has been our first time actually interacting in person. And I appreciate your trust and I appreciate your time. And guys, until next time, another episode of The Art of coaching. Please support Elisabeth, please support the show. Send this to five friends who could use this no matter what field they’re in the commonalities we all share. As we work with people we will continue to do so as long as we are human beings, and every field has its obstacles. Until next time, Brett Bartholomew Elisabeth Oehler signing off
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