If we were to question all commonly accepted leadership practices and qualities, which would hold up and which would break down?
On March 20-21, 2021, we’re doing just that. Join us for the first-ever virtual Art of Coaching Communication and Leadership Strategy Summit.
We’re tired of endless Zoom meetings and powerpoint presentations so we’re opting instead for two days of INTERACTIVE discussion with leaders from a range of professions; leaders who are currently pressure testing what we’ve long assumed about leadership against the messy realities of our new normal… Click here to learn more!!
Today’s episode is a perfect example of investigating the messy reality of leadership at top organizations. Andrew Hauser the Director of Performance Rehab with the (World Champion) Los Angeles Dodgers. He’s been in a variety of roles in the performance realm, most recently as the Director of Player Health & Performance for the Atlanta Braves.
On today’s show we discuss:
- Benefits of detachment and other dark sided traits in leadership
- The need for “contextual inventory” & how to provide feedback in context
- Andrew’s best practices for “Day One” in a new organization
- Situations in which leaders shouldn’t be listeners
- A different model of mentorship*
Connect with Andrew:
Via email: andrewh@ladodgers.com
Via Instagram: @andrew_hauser_atsc
Via Twitter: @_ahauser
Via LinkedIn: Andrew Hauser
Other Resources:
- Episode 127: How to Give The Most Effective Feedback
- “How To Find The Right Mentor” is our free guide for everything from what to look for to sample emails you can send out!
- Our “What Drives You” quiz will give you a glimpse into the underlying motivations of the people you work with – a cheat sheet for human behavior!
TRANSCRIPTION
Andrew Hauser 0:00
A lot of people in our industry, they get put into leadership roles, just because they’re high performers. And a lot of times, that’s when, when you’re put into a leadership role, your characteristics become amplified, good and bad. Because the stress level is going to it’s going to go way up the perceived stress level. I know what helped me the most going into Atlanta was, I needed to have somebody I need to have a sounding board other than my wife. And I needed to have somebody that would shoot me straight. Because again, like people aren’t always forthright with the people that are in those roles. So you better have people that punch you in the nose and you need it.
Brett Bartholomew 0:56
Welcome to the Art of coaching podcast, a show aimed at getting to the core of what it takes to change attitudes, behaviors and outcomes in the weight room, boardroom classroom, and everywhere in between. I’m your host, Brett Bartholomew, I’m a performance coach, keynote speaker, and the author of the book conscious coaching. But most importantly, I’m a lifelong student interested in all aspects of human behavior and communication. I want to thank you for joining me. And now let’s dive into today’s episode.
How do you evaluate yourself as a leader? No, I mean it, how do you give yourself feedback? There’s 1000s, if not millions of articles and books and and blogs about how to give other people feedback, but how do you give yourself feedback in terms of how you’re progressing personally and professionally? Another question for you. How do you address integrating into a new role, we’ve all taken different jobs. If you haven’t already, you’re going to inevitably, we’ve all had that awkward first day where you know, you don’t know what people are gonna think you know, you’re not sure how you’re gonna come off. There’s your, you have the eyeballs of everybody around you. And you’re just there to do good work and try to make a difference. But you understand that you’re going to have to deal with a lot of people’s emotions and a lot of judgments early on. These are just a couple of the topics myself, and today’s guests Andrew Hauser talked about today. Now, if you’re not familiar, Andrew is currently the director of performance rehab with the Los Angeles Dodgers, excuse me, the world champion, Los Angeles Dodgers, and Glendale, California with his wife, Valerie. Now, Andrew has been in a lot of different roles in his career, right in the medical side and the performance realm, it’s a big reason why we’ve had him on, because he has not operated in a vacuum, he’s had to wear a lot of different hats. And when Andrew and I get together, we like to talk about psychology behavior, we like to talk about bigger picture organizational issues. And so if you’re not in sports performance, I think you’re really going to enjoy this, because you’re going to hear so much of what goes on in internal organization, especially at one that’s competed at the highest level, and you’re gonna see a lot of similarities, especially if you’re a new listener, if you are in the performance realm, you’ll appreciate that Andrew is somebody that didn’t do what so many tend to do when they jump on podcasts, they clam up, they don’t share true opinions, they’re really scared about the trouble, it’s gonna get them into work. But we shared some tactical things here that I’m really anxious to get your guys’s feedback on, and I can’t wait for you to dive into. Now. We also talked about mentoring. If you are somebody that is looking for a mentor, or you want to mentor other people, there is a great resource that we put out last year at artofcoaching.com/findamentor again, that is art of coaching.com Ford slash find a mentor and in not only talks about the traits you want to look for, but we give you email templates of how to best reach out to them. Because that’s a critical issue as well. If you’re somebody that wants to move forward in your career in progress, it doesn’t matter what age you are, you need to know how to communicate appropriately with people that you’re trying to learn from. And the ethics behind that. And the details and nuances behind that are critical. So please make sure to check that out.
Also, whenever we talk about leadership, I want to point you guys to our drives quiz. Now, this isn’t a personality profile. This isn’t some kind of new age psych profile that we’re trying to come up with. We’re not trying to reinvent the wheel. When we talk about drives. We’re talking about the things that motivate people subconsciously and consciously the things that are constantly whispering in your ear that make you do the things you do. And we give the science behind that and details behind that in a podcast episode and a quiz that you can hear and learn from at artofcoaching.com/whatdrivesyou. I’m gonna implore that you guys check this out. Because you can’t lead if you don’t know what makes other people tick. You cannot lead effectively if you don’t know make what makes other people tick including yourself. So in an episode where we talk about self evaluation, understanding yourself and understanding how to integrate in different environments, you need to check these things out. Alright guys, without further ado, I’m bringing you Andrew Hauser, the art of coaching podcast. Let’s Roll.
Andrew Houser, welcome to the show.
Andrew Hauser 5:06
Thanks, Brett. Appreciate it. Appreciate the time excited to be on.
Brett Bartholomew 5:10
Yeah, excited to have you, man, especially Hey, on the back of winning a World Series, congratulations on that hard fought harder.
Andrew Hauser 5:16
And I appreciate it, man. It’s one of those things, it’s like a boyhood dream for a lot of people just to be a part of something like that. And to, actually go through it now. It’s just the whole experience getting that deep into the playoffs like, total perspective shift for me personally, on what it takes physically and probably more importantly, mentally, to get to that point and then to win. So it’s eye opening, it’s one of those things like, I wouldn’t have, unless I had experienced it. I mean, you just don’t know until you experience those things. So it’s things that you’ll try to pass on to the best of your abilities.
Brett Bartholomew 5:59
Sure. No, we had a previous guests on that, they’re in a different realm. But they were talking about it in terms of a business that they had sold, right, they started with a soup to nuts business, ended up selling it for the hundreds of millions. And that just wasn’t fathomable to them, right for them to even be able to put that in their own minds, I contextually. And, you know, it was a good thing that as they said that they were pretty humble grassroots person, because for that reason, it really wasn’t gonna change them, because they chose to acknowledge the moment which I’m bad at if I have a success, but they chose to acknowledge the moment celebrate it without it consuming them. Right. Like, and I think that there’s so many parallels between that and sport, because really, sport is a microcosm of what we see in business and vice versa. There’s so much organizational stuff, for lack of a better term that’s got to go on, you know, with you guys having been so close, right? And if you guys are listening in and you haven’t followed the Dodgers, and admittedly, Andrew, I love you to death, but I don’t follow you guys year round, right? if something’s on, I’ll pick up because I care about you. And I want to hear how you’re doing. But if you haven’t followed, there’s been so many years, right, the playoffs and the World Series and obviously, the drama with that other team and all these things, how do you manage a combination of not only your own, but some of the players and other individuals that natural anxiety that drive everything so that emotions don’t get too high, or too low during that time?
Andrew Hauser 7:25
You know, it’s and this is an interesting team. And this is one of the first things I noticed about when so I came over here a couple of years ago from Atlanta. And in Atlanta, it was a rebuild scenario where we made the playoffs my final year there, and it was the first time in a few years. And you could just tell like there was a lot of momentum there. But the team was like, it was such a like exciting moment to get to the playoffs. Now, here, it’s a totally different scenario, because you had I mean, yeah, back to back years where they got second place losing the series. And then last year, when I came over, it was I mean, we ended up losing in the last game of the first round. So it was I mean, it was a big letdown emotionally. But the thing about the team here that I mean, I like I said I noticed right away. They’re the same every day, every player on the team like there’s not highs and lows emotionally, which like it took me aback honestly, like I haven’t seen this and like that’s, but it’s funny, because I remember having conversations with young players in Atlanta, I was like, hey, like, Look at this guy. Like he’s, you look at the Veterans and they’re there that way the guys have 10 plus years. And in the big leagues, like they are the same person everyday like you go up, they could go over four with four strikeouts, they could go four for four with four home runs. And like you wouldn’t notice the difference in how they, how they act, how their preparation that they’re the same. They just stay even keeled. And that is, I think the defining fact characteristic of this team. And that since I got over here now this year was different because they got over the hump. But I mean, we went down three games to one in that first series, or in the, I’m sorry, in the championship series to my former squad. Yeah. And and I’ll tell you what, like, I’m looking at my heart rate monitor on my watch on the bench like okay, like my heart rates are starting to spike a little bit. So I’m just trying to like go to my breath, control my you know, control the controllables and the team itself did such an incredible job of like, they just didn’t give up. They didn’t get nobody panicked. Some of that those they experience too. They’ve been in these high leverage situations most of the team has before and that just starts to I think, permeate and carry over. And that’s what happens. I think when you have good people In general, too.
Brett Bartholomew 10:00
Yeah. Well, I agree with that. I mean, and to give people you know, here’s the tricky thing, though, because you even hear about people like Mike Tyson right saying how nervous he was before he got into the ring. Now as he got closer and closer to the ring, you got more competent and what have you. And so there is this romanticized idea out there that the greats they never get anxious. They never get nervous. But that’s not always true. Right now, that could be true. It may be that this team, the team that you worked with this, you know, that you’ve been with, but this specific team this year, a little bit more indoctrinated to it, right. It’s this stimulus response that they know how to handle that. I mean, let’s be real, I think they said the, 2019 World Series, and this could be wrong. But I think Forbes reported it was watched by an average of 14 point 1 million people. Now that was before the pandemic, right? So we look at the pandemic, now. We’re talking about a pretty massive stage, you know, but surely, even if some of the players aren’t nervous and nervous can be the wrong word. I’ve always heard, hey, if you’re anxious, that means you care. If you’re nervous, that means you’re unprepared, right? And then there’s semantics involved with that. But I’d have to imagine that there’s even as somebody that’s involved with the team, when you step out there, you’re like, alright, we want this one. I think that there’s some trouble there with people that I’m gonna actually call bullshit on anybody that says they don’t go out there and like, I want this, you know, what’s that internal dialogue for you? You’re, maintaining your face for the players. And we all have to wear different faces and different masks. But internally, what is that ego, the healthy part of your ego saying?
Andrew Hauser 11:29
You know, I’ll tell you what, like, I totally agree with you first and foremost, like, if you don’t want it, then why are you there? And so I think it’s interesting, like, for me, I always try to go back to again, like, I touched on a moment ago, like, I try to go back to my breath. And like, I never want to seem panic for the players. Because if you’re panicked, especially in a medical emergency, yeah, that’d be a nightmare for everybody. So the biggest thing, I think, like they need to see us as, I mean, we’re support staff at the end of the day, so we need to have be as positive as we can not let any of the like, there’s always negative talk going on, especially from the media. And I mean, that’s we’re in the clubhouse for, I mean, all day. So like, there’s TVs on like, so it’s like, how do you deflect that, and at the same time, like, keep your composure throughout the whole thing. And I think routines are huge for that, in my opinion, like routines, and then just going back to like, when you’re in the heat of the moment in the game, like we’re not even on the field and like, again, my heart rates going up, I’m trying to slow it all down with my breath. And, just be a positive person on the bench to ground them more than anything. Like, if you can be it’s like that calming voice and that’s what I’ve always tried to do from a medical perspective too is like, a guy gets injured, or you can tell like he’s just nervous about like, an injury or what, like, maybe I’m going on the injured list, maybe? Like what does this mean for my spot on the team? Like, you have to change like, you have to meet that situation. So what like improv?
Brett Bartholomew 13:21
Yeah. Right. No, I think that’s, important. And I want to, there’s somebody I want to introduce you to, and I’m talking about this live on the air, but I think you’d love talking with him. And in any new listeners. You know, Andrew has talked several times about managing things in the moment, and especially as a part of a medical personnel. We had a surgeon on a gentleman that I got to know because we supported him from online training standpoint. Justin Bosley, it’s episode 69. Great episode called the tyranny of now. And you know, he’s in the trauma center, and he talks about the exact thing that you did, right? Like, if somebody comes in with 50, stab wounds, now, of course, a little bit lateral compared to what you deal with, but to that person, right, the relative emergency is still significant. And he’s like, you know, I can’t just flood them with empathy. You know, I can’t flood them with what I feel at the moment, you’ve got to remain cool, calm, collected, and sometimes even a healthy amount of detachment, right to make sure that they manage that moment. And we called his episode, the tyranny of now. And I thought that was a really good way to phrase that. So you know, within that, oh, sorry. Go ahead.
Andrew Hauser 14:21
I was just gonna say I love that you pointed on, you touched on the point of detachment. That’s something I think in our roles at least, like you have to have a pretty high level of that, especially in the as the games get more and more intense. But I think in general, just a major league game is way more intense than what people are dealing with in the minor leagues, to like the stage like whether there’s fans in the seats or not like it’s getting watched on TV, and it’s just there’s so much self perceived. It’s an emotional roller coaster for a lot of people. And the more that we can detach from that I think the better. And I actually think this is a big part of something I wanted to talk to you about. Because I think this is a big part of leadership in general, like, there’s always going to be emotion, But you have to be able to take a step back and look and say, like, hey, what’s the best for the organization? You have to detach yourself from that emotion in a leadership role? And I think the same thing happens in a medical role, or what have you, like, you have to detach yourself and say, like, Okay, what do I need to do to handle this situation? knots? Oh, my gosh, this guy, like he’s going to be fractured his ankle, like, how are we going to get them off the field? Where’s the card out? Like, you can’t worry about that, like, you have to care of the situation right there. But you again, you have to detach yourself emotionally to the best of your abilities. And I think you get better and better at that over time. I don’t know that there’s any easy fix, because it’s probably easier said than done.
Brett Bartholomew 15:53
No, but you touched on an important point and one that we haven’t you know, I’ve dove on, I’ve dove deep on in some of my presentations. And we talked about a little bit in my book. But we haven’t talked about in the podcast much. So it’s worth mentioning, you know, you’re spot on, you know, the detachment. There’s so many things that people look at, and the literature calls it bright sided leadership behaviors, and dark sided leadership behaviors. And Brightside, just for those of you that are listening, kind of brief primer. These are things that we typically think of as like the servant based leadership model, right? We’re empathetic, we’re inspirational. There’s all these things, right? And, those things are great, right? They can, be great for the right situation, but they’re not effective for everybody. And then the dark sided behaviors are things classically associated with things that are socially undesirable. So narcissism, hubris, Machiavellianism, psychopathy, and what we found and what the Leadership Research shows, and Andrew is alluding to tremendously here is, we didn’t really know what those terms meant, you know, you can’t look at them as a one size fits all thing. psychopathy is not the same thing as what you would imagine the world kind of casting it as we think of Dexter or we think of serial killers, where a trained psychologist would actually tell you that’s incorrect, right? Those are sociopaths, those are people that are a completely different side of the spectrum. We are all really born with a subclinical level of psychopathy, or it’s like a scale, right? People that are psychopaths have a little empathy or remorse. But those tend to make for really great surgeons, really great financial advisors, again, the ethical ones, or what have you, sometimes really great quarterbacks and athletes, because they have to make it they make a mistake, and they can compartmentalize it and move on. Right? So the dark side of any of these traits, because there’s a bright and dark side of empathy, as well. And there’s one of being inspirational as well. But if you look at if psychopathy is taken too far, yes, we can be callous and emotionally unstable. But on the bright side, you’re steadfast, you’re highly observational, and you’re bold. And this isn’t me, this is the literature saying this, and you do have to be able to have those things. I think of it, Andrew almost like, because I’ve had to think about this a lot. When people ask me what I do and what I focus on now. And I’m like, You know what, I’m a locksmith for communication, right? A key may not always look like it’s the right fit. But we just got to get in the door so that we can utilize the methods, we need to have a better outcome. And sometimes, I mean, you know it, I’m sure you’ve dealt with a player and feel free to share an experience. I know you can’t use names, feel free to use any example in your life, where you’ve had to kind of do what would be perceived to be a bad thing, right, in order to have a good outcome. And I know I’m putting you on the spot, but there’s something come to light there.
Andrew Hauser 18:32
Well, I mean, just, you know, it goes back to this detachment thing in I think, one of the things that hit me early on when I was in Atlanta, this is something I struggled with, in the new role. And again, you’re looking at like, Okay, you’re detaching yourself what’s best for the organization, and make some personnel decisions that emotionally were very difficult for me personally, like, really good people. Like, human wise, they were just like, off the charts. Performance wise, it just, it wasn’t where we were going as an organization. And so had to make those difficult calls to like, Okay, we’re going to make a change in these positions. You knew you weren’t going to make people happy. And you had to, you had to be okay with that. It was a little bit like, Okay, you’re gonna be, you’re hired almost to be the villain in some of these scenarios, where at the end of the day, like, it’s like losing a battle to win the war. You know, like, I’m gonna have to be a villain here to ultimately help the organization get to where it wants to go, and at least what my own personal vision and whatever the organization’s vision is, and how those match up. What we think this can be as a group as a collective group is it’s never I’m never going to make a decision from a leadership perspective. Anyways, I’m never going to make a decision where it’s just this is what But I think like, no, like, it’s how does this going to impact the group? And what does the group think? So, again, I think some of those personnel moves were really difficult. I mean, I think about them now, but that you’re able to take a step back after the fact. And you’re like, wow, like, we never would have gotten to this point, had we not made these moves. So, you know, they’re the right decisions, but you have to be able to look back and, again, detach yourself from the situation emotionally make the decision. And then you have to be able to take a step back after this bet, retrospectively and be like, Was that the right decision? How could I have handled this better? And those are, it’s difficult to look in the mirror and some of those situations, too. It’s like, you want to think you’re doing everything the right way. But you know, more often than not, I mean,
Brett Bartholomew 20:55
what’s the right way in the context of that, you know, that’s not to cut you off. But that’s, something that, you know, I’ve always been so interested in this concept of black white dichotomy, right, wrong, what have you. You know, of course, when we’re talking about any of these behaviors, we’re not talking about, like, there are certain behaviors that society is vilified, despite the fact that they’re not villainous. Right? Like, I find it fascinating that we’re supposed to be authentic and honest, yet when we are right, oh, it’s too much sometimes. Right? Like, we’ve never been judged more like superficially in society. I mean, we really have it. And maybe you could say, well, you don’t know that, you know, well, I can tell you this, the ramifications have never been higher, because things spread. So now and, like, all I’ve ever proposed, and I think you and I agree on this, but feel free if you don’t, is that we have to really re evaluate these widely held assumptions about what makes a good leader. Right? Yeah, like, because that is completely contextual. It is completely contextual. Like, let’s say, we took the most clean, pure, whatever these terms even mean, in the light of the judger, right person in Western culture, are they a good leader for the eastern part of the world, and vice versa? Like, this depends on the values and everything else of the organization, as well as the perceptions of the lead, you know, that how many people have now something, you know, awful happened to them whether a relationship or a job, maybe somebody you had to let go. But that led them to a way better path that led them to something that like, Okay, well, then something that looked bad in the moment, right was actually pretty compassionate. You know, if somebody’s in a relationship, and they feel more guilt, leaving that relationship, you know, even if they feel like staying in it is toxic, and they’re like, Well, I don’t want to hurt the other person, and yada, yada, yada. It’s kind of like, alright, well, just because you think you’re doing the right thing, by not leaving this and hurting that person, you’re doing the wrong thing, because you’re creating something far more insidious from the inside out. And I just think, again, reevaluating what we consider to be good leadership is a critical thing for us going forward.
Andrew Hauser 22:59
No, I definitely agree with that point. I think just like on your relationship example, like, what are people afraid of, in those situations, you know, they’re not, I don’t think it’s actually they’re afraid of hurting the other person, it’s, they’re worried about, like, oh, this person’s not gonna like, it’s the fear of being unliked or making change. And so again, I think it goes back to there. It’s a personal thing in those situations. So I think there’s healthy again, there’s healthy levels of detachment, not to beat a dead horse, but to be able to identify like, Okay, this is going to be best for this relationship, then, you need to be able to act on that now you need to be able to navigate it probably in a certain way, especially in a leadership role. But honestly, who gets prepared for a lot of those things, a lot of people in our industry, they get put into leadership roles, just because they’re high performers. And a lot of times, that’s when, when you’re put into a leadership role, it’s your characteristics become amplified, good and bad. Because the stress level is going to it’s going to go way up the perceived stress level. I know what helped me the most going into Atlanta, was, I needed to have somebody I need to have a sounding board other than my wife. And I needed to have somebody that would shoot me straight. Because again, like people aren’t always forthright with the people that are in those roles. So you better have people that punch you in the nose when you need it. And and I think in those roles, you actually need it more so than when you’re in some of the more developmental roles as you’re coming up through an organization. Because you become I think over time, the longer you’re in an industry, the more biased you become so unknowingly like you see things through us A certain lens, you’re going to need somebody else from seeing things from a different lens to punch you in the nose and say like, Hey, like, have you noticed this? Have you noticed that you’re doing this, this is how, like I’m perceiving you. And so like, with former colleagues and people, just people I’ve worked with and helped mentor, since I’ve been in the game, it’s, I try to be that other lens for them as well. Because I think that’s what my mentor has done for me. And that’s what the people I’ve tried to surround myself with, when I’ve been in those roles. That’s what same thing, that’s what they’ve done. We’ve done that for each other.
Brett Bartholomew 25:44
So touching on a couple of things there. And that’s everything you said is impactful. And I’m going to try to piecemeal this. So if, if anything seems to meta or not clear, you know, stop me. But one of the things you touched on earlier is we’re not really prepared for this, right. And that’s a key thing that I’m finding more and more. And the research I do like for my doctoral work is how bad of shape the leadership development industry is in and I’m talking like, you know, overall. Now, it doesn’t look bad in terms of the financials, more than $300 billion a year are spent in this. But what they’re finding is that it’s not really the way that it’s evaluated is interesting, right, by and large, as Jeffrey Pfeffer says, people evaluate effective leadership development workshops, oftentimes by happy sheets, right? Like, did you enjoy yourself? How do you feel about the speaker? How’d you feel about the material? The right a lot of those kinds of things, as opposed to how pragmatic or you know, how practical was it? Or even heaven forbid, Andrew? How challenging was the damn material? Right? I think you and I would both agree, not a lot of people go to conferences, clinics, or what have you, to feel challenged as much as they do to get a little vacation, some networking, and oftentimes, they go see some things that is just a manifestation of like confirmation bias right? Now, you may now and then go poke their head in another presentation. But you could almost guess if you, if one of your colleagues went to a clinic, which one which talks are gonna go see if they go see him? So my question is this, you know, if we were to what do you think the ideal kind of development scenario would look like for leaders to be more prepared for the ambiguity of these things? The power dynamics of these things? What would that look like? Would it be in person? Would it be virtual COVID? Non withstanding, right? Let’s imagine COVID is not a thing. What kind of topics would be covered? What would that look like? Just riff if you wouldn’t mind?
Andrew Hauser 27:32
Oh, yeah. I think number one, like anytime you can do some of these things in person, it becomes that more much more impactful, just because I think the human element totally changes thing. One thing like you and I talking through zoom right now, but it’s a whole other thing. If we’re having like some difficult conversations. It’s kind of like the online forums, like people have no problem like ripping people online. But face to face, like people don’t get that kind of feedback, or it’s very rare. I think the probably the number one thing that was instilled upon me, or two, maybe top things that were instilled upon me from my mentor was communication. And I think a lot of people talk about communication. But until you’re getting the same communication, your gift, you get the communication you get, maybe I should say it that way.
Brett Bartholomew 28:25
Yeah. unpack that a moment. If we can unpack that.
Andrew Hauser 28:29
A brutally honest with you, what are the odds that you’re going to be able to do the same, you know, like, we’re, I think as humans like, we want to meet the tone of the room. You know, so if I’m yelling at you, you’re going to either respond by yelling back or, or you’re going to cower and like, okay, now I feel like the only alpha in the room you just gave me that like now on the Alpha. that’s about improv a lot as well as like, okay, like, you’re getting like the essentially the ambiance or the aura of whatever role you’re trying to play by the other people in the room, not because of your position, if that makes sense.
Brett Bartholomew 29:11
Yeah. 100%.
Andrew Hauser 29:13
Yeah, just because you’re called the leader. That doesn’t mean you are the leader, like you’re number two, could garner more respect and be more of an influencer? Maybe by title, that person’s not the leader?
Brett Bartholomew 29:27
Yeah, they call legitimate power, right. But if somebody is more likable than you and has like, referent power, you know, it doesn’t matter what your title is, that person wields the influence and that’s a fascinating piece there. Right? So you bring up and so like in person, you brought up improv a little bit like obviously, an improv element. We have to have that because, you know, why, you know, like, what do you think are like when you ask yourself questions, I guess what I’m getting at is like, you know, how did you learn to communicate effectively and how could you put that into some experience like this, right? What are these Like how much of your day Andrew, or even year, right, regardless of the time, the temporal, how much of your job is improvisation to a degree?
Andrew Hauser 30:09
Yeah, I mean, I think the vast majority of it honestly, like so I took an improv class, for the recommendation of actually a psych friend of mine. They had done it with their military group, they’ve done it with another sporting group. And I was like, Man, that’s just seems like a great idea. It was funny, because every, at least the class I went through, was like, there was a theme every week, and then you just start picking up on just basic human elements that you see like in your day to day and like, I feel like that’s all we’re doing. All day is just improv like, if it’s scripted. And nothing ever goes is scripted, just ask the NFL Coach, you know, they try to script so many plays. But as soon as it’s or Mike Tyson, as soon as you get punched in the mouth, like how are you going to respond?
Brett Bartholomew 30:54
No plan survives first contact with the enemy.
Andrew Hauser 30:57
Yeah. So I think the communication piece, man is this. Being able to have that open, honest feedback. And if we don’t have those people around us, then something’s gonna go off the rails. Something going back to your point earlier about? Like, what are some things that have helped me man, like, teaching, like younger staff members and teaching other staff members was so impactful for me, because it’s, you start to work on your feedback right away, like, even if you’re not having some of the tough conversations yet. Like, I’m already starting to. I’m starting to everything’s trial and error at the end of the day, I think, because you go through, if I have a conversation with you, and then you go and say like, oh, like Andrew told me to do this, but like, I didn’t really believe him. I don’t think he knows what he’s talking about. Like, all right, like you didn’t give me that feedback. But like, that was a failure on my behalf. You know, I have to learn from those situations, like when I felt like one of my big learning moments coming up as a when I was a medical coordinator. So when you’re the medical coordinator, you’re in charge of like, essentially the medical care, you’re like this. There’s the head trainer in the major major leagues, and there’s the medical coordinator. So you really oversee and funnel information to the head trainer to the front office. it’s like middle management, really, but it’s like your training wheels for what the major leagues would be like, majorly intensity, you’re getting hit with a 50 caliber caliber bullet instead of like, minor league is probably buckshot. So you’re just a ton of volume. So it’s a lot of practice. But one of the things I learned early on is like man, like I was you want to prove to everyone like you’re the right person for the job. And my mentor told me this before, but it didn’t dawn on me until I experienced it. And it’s like, so you start to there’s pieces of your day where you start to micromanage different things, like you want everything to be a certain way. You’re trying to put your stamp on it. And I was like, man, after that first year, I was like, wow, okay, like, what could I have done better? And it’s like, man, you have to let like, how did I learn best? My massive failures? Were the situations I came away from learning things like that. I could never learn by somebody telling me that or structuring it for me to learn it that way. Like no, like, I had to fail on my own to learn. It’s just like, you take your training wheels off your bike, like I ran into a tree the first time, but I figured out like I have to turn the bike after that.
Brett Bartholomew 33:48
Yeah, no doubt.
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And that’s a thing again, it goes to people, expect to be good at adapting to change it they seek comfort in their education. Right. You know, they seek things that oftentimes people don’t want to they’ll talk about failure. Oh, yeah, failure is important yet I don’t know, I we find that there’s not that many people that go do the things that they’re bad at and really try to write, it’s easier to insulate. You had mentioned within everything that you had discussed, you know, the role of evaluation and you know, being critical with feedback and what have you. And we’ve done previous episodes where we talked about how to give better feedback, but one of our listeners and tremendous guy had asked, you know, I’m interested in almost how you give yourself feedback, right, this self, and I think, you know, everybody in every organization is going to have a different kind of name for this, right? You could think of it as a self assessment, a self appraisal, but essentially, like, you know, if you didn’t have to give somebody else feedback, but if you’re giving Andrew Hauser feedback, right, the voice inside your head, or, you know, if it’s some kind of process that you go through, or if you were, if you don’t have a process, and you were going to start one today, what would that be? Like, how do you give yourself feedback? If that makes sense?
Andrew Hauser 36:23
Yeah, no, 100%. I looked at it a couple different ways. One, it’s the people you’ve surrounded yourself with, I look for people in multiple areas. So not just the people that are necessarily in my same department, let’s say, I want to know, like, hey, what do you see from your lens? So if I can get feedback from other people, but also, like, I look at goal setting a little bit as my feedback opportunity, like, what are my goals right now? And like, okay, like, if those are my goals, like, why am I not meeting those goals? Or like, what’s my route to get to those goals? And I think that’s a, it’s an opportunity to look at it just from a, again, a different lens, and different perspective of like, I’m not doing these things like, what like, you can just start spider webbing off of like, where you’re missing the mark, almost. And that works. For me personally, like, you’re not always in a situation where people you work with are gonna give you great feedback. So those are those really are the situations of like, what am I working on with the organization? Like, okay, like, we need to get better at this, like, okay, then where am I? where are my failures, that we’re not doing that? Or what do I need to do better? So I think you’re always in a mode, to get feedback, whether there’s a good or bad situation happening. And I think that’s another point is like, anytime we want, we all want appraisal, you touched on that earlier, like, we all want some sort of appraisal and sometimes like we naturally I think give that to ourselves, we want to pump ourselves up. Our, internal dialogue is trying to pump us up, but at the same time, it’s gonna pull us down to So figuring out where’s the middle ground, like, a psych friend of mine always says, like, man, the truth is always somewhere in the middle.
Always great greatness is in the gray area.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s true. Even like your internal dialogue is the same way. Like, we talked at the beginning of the show about like, the best are always there, right here. And you can’t think like they don’t. Internally, they’re not having highs and lows, but they find a way to bring it back and ping pong back to the middle. And I think our internal dialogues the same way for our own feedback. Like there’s good and bad situations, there’s good and bad internal dialogue and like, so how are you honing in on that? And then bringing it back to the middle?
Brett Bartholomew 39:05
Yeah, no, I think that’s valuable. And when he asked us, it made me think about it, and, you know, for posterity, this was just last night, we had this discussion, he was over the house. And so I thought about it, you know, and, you know, I know one area that I do it, I’ve been forced to do it is we you know, at the workshops, we do our apprenticeships, we have a communication based evaluation, something that we’ve spent a lot of time on, right, and there’s seven areas, and these areas relate you know, they can be everything from conciseness to a meta category we call orchestration, meaning, you know, if you’re in a dialogue with somebody and they mentioned a topic and you respond, right, then how well are you staying on topic or building off what they said as opposed to steering it somewhere else? Of course, you can look at listening and getting your point across message clear like we have seven different meta factor or categories and three to five subcategories within that. Well, I can always grade myself there, and I do and sometimes it’s in interesting because communication can be tenuous where, you know, we’re always told well, you need to listen more than you speak. But I’ve been a part of environments that’s not always true at the beginning. You know, sometimes you have to display vulnerability. And you do have to disclose a bit more information about yourself, even if that what I call a communication ratio is askew, right. And in sometimes it’s hard. If you’re listening more than you speak all the time, it’s hard to provide value. Because if you’re not talking, right, like a lot of times talk and we forget this communication as a way to create clarity. And there’s been times where sure I’ve ranted and you know what have you but then all of a sudden, the core idea comes out, and that wouldn’t have came out otherwise. And you know, it’s always frustrated me sometimes from a communication standpoint, like I belong to a coaching mastermind group that we just get in and we share kind of thoughts on, you know, some folks are in snow and ski board somewhere and another thing and what have you, and you know, there’s always gonna be somebody that doesn’t share, but if they don’t share like multiple times, and then they’re like, Well, I’m just here to listen, or they always downplay it, and they mask it is humility, man, that irritates the shit out of me. Because I’m just sitting here, like, don’t give me this listeners or leaders, because what it comes across is, is you’re harvesting information from everybody else, and you’re not providing any of it on your own. Right. So I thought about that from a communication standpoint. And then, you know, I thought about when you evaluate yourself, it’s gotta be contextual, right? So like, I think, I know what I hate, Andrew, and I’d love to know what you think about this after, like, kind of get it out is? Don’t evaluate yourself on Hey, what’s your motivation? What’s your commitment to excellence? You know, how well do you feel like you showed up to work today? Like, that’s all? Come on, man. You know, where I do think it’s valuable. And you’ve talked about perception a number of times, is alright, and maybe owning a company now made me do this more, I’ve had to say, what’s my main responsibility? Let’s say there’s a meta category of job description, right? Because what I want to see is how well do I think I’m meeting this person? How well am I meeting it? And like, so Alright, how do I describe my main responsibilities in my position? And YouTube? Right? Have these changed over time? Because it’s hard to evaluate myself whether I’m good or bad at them? If there’s been change that necessitated that, right? Like, how I evaluate myself now, post, like, during the pandemic is harder to look at those KPIs, and what if it hadn’t have happened? Does that make sense? And then like, alright, well, what other tasks am I carrying out? Right? Because I have to, again, look at it in context. You know, I just had surgery, some of the listeners won’t see it. But you know, what, I’m not going to meet some of my end of the month quotas that I had things that I’ve been promised my staff that I would, because we I kind of had to get this surgery quick. What would I like to change all that? So I think there’s a job description, kind of meta category. I think that there’s like performance versus achievements, like, what actions do I take on a daily basis to manage this gap? What are my perceived strengths? Where do I still want to improve? You know, and that’s where I think we have to look at it not as so much an assessment or appraisal, but taking inventory, and then saying, it’s almost like a contextual inventory. There you go. I’m trademarking that word. You and I are gonna have these shirts contextual inventory where that around the Dodgers locker room, people are like, What the hell is that? But does any of that make sense? Or resonate with you in any way of like, evaluating yourself in context?
Andrew Hauser 43:13
Yeah, honestly, like, I probably hadn’t thought about it until this moment, but like I think anytime you go into a new situation, like how are you personally looking at success? What does success look like? For you? I mean, it’s, that doesn’t have to be achievement. But I think more often than not, they are achievements, or things we’re putting on a pedestal. But I think as time goes on, you think it’s always fluctuating on somewhere on a continuum? Like that’s success. Could be like, I know, when I first looked at Atlanta, for instance, when I first got there, success, year one was, you know, what, like, we want to be sure. we procure money for education for our performance staff, you know, like, that was success. That was a win, you know, or we wanted to be sure that all our paperwork looked exactly the same organizationally, like letter like, it was really like you’re starting a business. You know, it was it felt like I was learning more about being an entrepreneur that first year than anything else. But as time went on, probably by year three, you’re I was looking at it like, okay, success now is how many of our guys are getting interview requests? And are they prepared for those interviews
Brett Bartholomew 44:40
guys, your athletes or your staff,
Andrew Hauser 44:43
staff? So how many of those guys are getting interviews? How many of them are prepared for those interviews? And how many of them are really prepared to lead kind of to take this thing full circle and like, if they’re not in those situations where Are we missing the mark? And I knew after year two, we were starting to get some guys that were getting more and more interviews, staff wise with other clubs. It’s like, okay, like that, in my mind was a success initially, but it’s like, they’re not all necessarily getting the job. So where are we not giving them the tools to, do these things. So that’s like that actually took made us take a right turn and go like, Okay, let’s look at our own interview process and like, how’s that preparing us to find? Well, number one, you’re looking for the best people you can. But number two, like is that preparing? Like, if you’re a part of the interview process, is that preparing you to go on and to do really well on an interview and to be able to sell yourself without
Brett Bartholomew 45:53
selling out?
Andrew Hauser 45:53
Yeah, yeah, with that being coming off as a narcissist, like those aren’t. And so it made us reevaluate and start just looking into more and more areas. So we started looking more into again, like our own interview process. And then it was like, okay, like, well, what next? Okay, like, how about what’s our recruitment strategy? What’s our how are we putting people in positions to give one another feedback and receive feedback? Because they want man, like, receiving feedback is not only difficult, I think for leaders, because they think they should, I think most leaders thinkthey should have things figured out.
Brett Bartholomew 46:38
So that’s a good point. Yeah.
Andrew Hauser 46:41
Difficult. Young staff is the same way. Like that’s, it’s very rare that you’re gonna find somebody with the emotional, I think intelligence to be able to like to take that piece of information and be able to spin it be like, okay, like, now I need to do A, B and C to accomplish this. And, I think those are things you start to learn as you have more and more of those difficult conversations with, those staff members have like, okay, like, here’s your feedback. Now, how can we do this together? Like, how can I help you? And I think that’s like motivational interviewing one on one, even in the in the psych world? Like these things need to be reciprocal.
Brett Bartholomew 47:24
Well, yeah. And to touch on what you just said, there, you know, they need to be reciprocal. But here’s the issue, the best when we think about feedback, right, feedback, is a two way conversation. I think, you know, I’ve always felt like the worst feedback is when you do kind of these 360 reviews are in one place. And we talked about it in our feedback episode that I did with my co host, Ali Kirshner out at Stanford is, you know, we did these anonymous 360 reviews, and it was just like, come on, like, This isn’t how we build a team, you know, you sit down, you have a discussion. And you say, sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off. Go ahead.
Andrew Hauser 48:01
I was just gonna say it’s, I look at those scenarios in the same way as the person that doesn’t want to respond in the in like the the forum you were talking about, like everybody shares, but this one person, the 360 reviews more often than not end up the same way. Because it’s like, I’ve done that in different places that I’ve been, and it’s been early on, if it’s an organization, or a place that hasn’t done things like that. They look at that as like their online forum their way to drop bombs,
Brett Bartholomew 48:34
Oh so true. That’s where they hang out. That’s, yeah,
Andrew Hauser 48:37
yeah. put names on it. Now you’re not getting the kind of feedback that you want. Now. It’s just very vanilla. And so like, I think our challenge is always like, Okay, how do we cultivate that? Like, again, you have both ends of the continuum there. Where’s the middle?
Brett Bartholomew 48:56
Yep. No I agree. And I think that the way we deliver it again, it has to be contextual, right? I told a story on our feedback episode. And again, if people want to listen to it, I’ll pull it up. But you know, where, you know, there is some a situation where I, Hey, why are you so intense all the time. And this was a physical therapist kind of telling you this as I’m getting ready to lead a group of 60, NFL guys or however many somebody will fact check me and be like, well, on your episode, you said 50. I don’t know how many it was. I know this when I lead a group, right? Like, strength coach, Brett is on the floor, like these people are paying me to do a job that matters for how they feed their family and their legacy. There’s going to be some energy and it’s never going to be fo energy, we’re going to match the room. You know what I mean? But in that case, that’s what they want. And they want GZ bumped, and they want somebody that speaks clearly right and in a way that they understand and in a way that as to kind of create a certain environment for the room in that moment. That’s what’s going to happen. And so I always tell people, like if you’re given feedback, right, like don’t criticize an action or behavior without the context, right? And that’s a template, right? We look at the template and say, Hey, here’s my feedback, right? I this is on this specific behavior. This was the context in which I witnessed it right. And there’s two parts to that. Right? There’s what I realized there’s what I’d love to learn, right? And here’s a conversation I think we can have, right? Because maybe something that we perceive to be completely inappropriate is when we have context with it. We’re like, now that’s interesting. Why don’t we explore that? I didn’t know that, about that athlete. I heard you curse on that podcast. This is why you maybe did it, you know. But like, it’s all occam’s razor man, The most valid explanation for something is usually the simplest. And I think when people give these reviews and these feedback, they try to get so avant garde with it. It’s like, man, it really isn’t that complicated. You know what I mean? here’s the situation. Here’s what it was. But I mean, I imagine that’s got to be so unique for you, given how you’ve had to integrate into new environments. You’ve talked about how you went from Atlanta to the Dodgers and what have you. That’s what I almost wonder to Andrew, for somebody like you, when you step in. And you understand that day one, man, day one, no matter how they look at you, now, people judge the hell out of you. Day one, they judge you they sit back, they look, what does this guy know? Or maybe they’re like, hey, this guy’s a genius. Listen up.how do you walk into that? What’s the day one of integrating into a new role Like,
Andrew Hauser 51:11
I’ll tell you, I mean, it was a paradigm shift for me personally, because I was going from a situation where I was helping really build the, environment, you know, I was tilling the soil, I was fertilizing the soil. I was a big part of that. And then you’re going in, and it’s like, okay, how do I integrate into this new environment in LA. And a lot of that is like, there’s a lot of listening that has to be involved. And it’s giving feedback, like, Hey, this is like, this is what I saw, like, Well, hey, why are we doing this? Like, what do you, you have to ask questions, and I think that helps you integrate into an environment better than anything, because when the questions stop, people like, I think that’s when the viewer is gonna be like, okay, he thinks he’s got it figured out.
Brett Bartholomew 52:05
What kind of questions can you elaborate on that a little bit, just for, you know, one I’m interested, but you know, because there’s so much to this, but yeah, what kind?
Andrew Hauser 52:13
Well, I think, almost going back to the interview, like, Hey, why are we interviewing people this way? Why are like, why is the training room set up this way? Like, honestly, it could span so many different things. We could, it’s a laundry list, and I’ve always looked at, I always like, have liked bringing in people from the outside, that are outside of baseball outs in another sport, and not even in sport. I like to have them come in, spend a day and then be like, hey, those are when you get the absolute best questions, because they don’t have context. So it’s gonna be they’re gonna be very simple questions, but they’re the questions that we all need to answer at the end of the day. And I think this is something that it’s helped me personally grown, I think as a leader, as a teammate. And just as a builder,
Brett Bartholomew 53:06
yeah, no, I think like, where I go to when you say this, I think about the times where, you know, I get brought in by organizations. And there’s such a stigma, sometimes there’s organizations you go into, and, you know, it’s usually leadership that invites you in. And so it’s all good on that end. But then there’s people that you know, and it’s always, it’s weird for me, because it’s what we call a parasocial relationship. If somebody hears that I’m coming in, or what have you, you know, they know they probably know that I have a book or they have a, like you can find me, right. Like, that’s the nature of kind of being in the arena. Like, like, they’re gonna have pre suppose No, like, presuppositions of what I’m like. And I always feel like, I’ll be honest, man, I like going into military and corporate settings more than I like going into sports settings, for one reason, you go into a sporting setting, and they think that, like, I have no interest in taking your job, dude, you know what I mean? Like, and you get that and myself, and there’s another individual in the physical therapy world that’s pretty visible. And he says it too. He’s like, you just get these looks. And it’s like, if I’m coming in, like, let’s say, metaphorically, right, let’s say you guys bring me in, dude, I’m coming to share what I think I know, right? And work with you to craft something useful, because at the end of the day, I want my tombstone to read that was useful. And I want to learn, I want to give you raw material, and I want to shape something together, because that’s how I innovate and collected with somebody else. And I like to think we’re doing pretty cool stuff. But you just get these people that will be like, and so what I’ve learned to do if it’s of any help to anybody, and I think it’s a terrible thing, but, you know, as I go in and I just try to downplay any kind of power, you know, I like and it is impression management to a degree and if you’re listening, and I’ve come to your organization, this is no secret, right? Like I come in and I just try to show them, dude, I’m just a real guy, right? I’m not using fancy terms. I’m not coming in here with some suit on. Like, I don’t want your job. You’re okay, like I’m more interested in communication and this stuff right now. Then I ever will be sets and reps again, I don’t want to take that. But like you, almost have to come in and give up so much power for people in certain settings to feel okay? Whereas man, when I go into other organizations, they don’t give a shit because you know what they do this more often, sports performance just doesn’t do that enough, you know? And like, if they do, it’s people from the leadership industry or it’s, you know, like, I don’t know, like a Simon Sinek or something. Because then they’re comfortable, right? Simon cynics not coming for their job. They know that and what are your thoughts on that? You know, if I came in day one, or somebody like me came in day one, and we want to do some work together? What do you think is appropriate way to behave? If you’re integrating into something like that?
Andrew Hauser 55:39
I’ll tell you what, man, talk about first impression specialist because I’ve seen these go well, and I’ve seen them go horribly. First of all, the people that ask questions, and are actually like asking questions to learn not asking questions, just I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it go both ways. I’ve seen people just ask questions, because oh, that’ll take people’s guards down. Like, People pick up on that, you know, like, there’s, yeah, there’s, I think there’s always a sense of uncertainty, anytime somebody is brought in, especially by the front office, or leadership, whatever. So I think the quickest way to disarm that is just and like, sit down and have coffee together and talk shop ask questions like, just like a legit just trying to learn from each other. Because that’s exactly what happens. As soon as goes back to the point of integrating into an organization like people shut down when you stop asking questions. Or if you’re asking questions, and they’re not. You’re just not forthright. You’re like you’re clearly harboring something. you know? And I think that, to me, are the people that do the best are the people that do that. And they’re just like, hey, like, Where can I help you out? Because it puts immediately, questions have a great way of disarming people and like it puts it gives you the ball, like, Hey, we’re going to share the ball, like, Where can I help you out? And all too often, I’ve seen again, I’ve seen it go both ways that people that have done really well in those scenarios, they do just that they, you know, what they do the small stuff that a lot of people come in those situations, and people can think they’re above that they’re at the point in their career where they’re above certain things, but like, no, like, That guy’s helping us get water outside or whatever it may be. That stuff goes such a long way.
Brett Bartholomew 57:39
Yeah, I would say this, just to play devil’s advocate to that all that is true, right. So I guess I’m not playing devil’s advocate. But what I’ve seen sometimes is like, again, I’ll go in and give a two day workshop, right? And it’s an in service kind of thing. And they’re getting everything, you know what I mean? If I print out, you’re getting me this and this. But then oftentimes, man, you leave, and you kind of get this trick look like, Hey, can’t be on social media can’t talk about it can’t do this, like almost as if you’re never here. And you’re like, that’s cool. But then you almost never like and you’ll hear from them again. But you hear from him. And it’s always a harvesting thing. I think there’s a responsibility on the host too. Now, granted, I haven’t met, there’s maybe two organizations, right? I’ve ever worked with that have ever been like that, right? Where they want to fill me teaching, they want to take my stuff and what have you and find whatever my stuff is out there. I’m very open. But then when you ask and you’re like, Hey, what did you end up doing with that? I’m interested, how did you guys craft that? What did you build off of that? you know, I’d like to know how you more for that material? Yeah, I’ll get back to you. And you’re like, Oh, interesting. And then you hear it through a third party, who tells you hey, this sounded a lot like your stuff. And you see somebody presenting it, and then it’s like, okay, so it’s tricky, because under the guise of an organization, you can get by with some stuff, too. So as a host, what do you think the responsibilities of reciprocity are there?
Andrew Hauser 58:51
Oh, no, I mean, I couldn’t agree. Agree any more than that? Because I think it needs to be very clear. And this is I think, where things go, right. Because let’s say leadership brings you in, you need crystal clear clarity, both going both ways. Yeah. Okay. What? Like, what do you want out of this? Number one, it’s no different than taking a job, a leadership role, I think, at the beginning of the day, because if you take it without clear understandings, and clear, like, boundaries, I don’t think is the right word. But if but all these
Brett Bartholomew 59:22
expectations Yeah, you’re right. Yeah.
Andrew Hauser 59:25
You don’t have that then. Yeah, certain things are gonna go a totally different way than you expect. Sometimes those are great. More often than not, though. That’s where the problems start to build and for both somebody in your role or somebody in the organization, and it just becomes a problem, the more clarity and this is where like, it’s not a 360 review, but the more clarity for everybody as you go as you walk into a situation, and like people aren’t afraid of you’re not coming in to take their job. Hey, he’s coming in to teach us x y and z Great, like, let’s see what we can see what we can take from this. And then after the fact, like, I think those are the where true collaboration starts. Because if it’s that sort of environment of like, Hey, we’re all here to learn together. Like, okay, like, hey, how do you think we could integrate this into our day to day? Like, I think like if you asked me like, hey, what do you think we’re missing? Then? I think we’re missing this. How does your skill set match up with this? Or how does your what you’re bringing to the table? How can we integrate those sorts of things in life, that’s, again, where collaboration happens. And when you’ve only got two thirds of the pie or half of the pie in a relationship. And stuff good stuff goes awry.
Brett Bartholomew 1:00:49
And it’s simple principles, right? Like good things happen when you don’t have a scarcity mindset. And you’re not letting insecure, right, like steer the ship, you know, and for the record, like, I’ve been there, right, like, before I got super into all this stuff that we’re in doing art of coaching, you know, I’ve always been a periodization and program design nerd, and what have you, and we’d have speakers come in, and I’d go in, they’re always open minded, but also like, alright, like, you know, I have expectations here, you know,] and sometimes ever, you get three fourth through three fourths through a presentation, I’m like, damn, like, I was really hoping to get something new. And then what I did is I checked myself. And this was the switch for me, I started having more self accountability, because I have a lot of inner dialogue. And I’m like, Dude, you lazy prick. I’m like, if you can’t take even the most basic of what this guy said, or gal, and use it to upskill like, you’re an idiot. And that’s like how I talked to myself. But it’s not a healthy way to talk to yourself. I know, for any of you, therapists out there, but it is, that’s almost kind of what I think we miss to Andrew is like this accountability on behalf of the listener of not like don’t go into something on either side with an expectation that somebody’s got something to prove to you think I could care less if they came in here and said, Hi, I’m Andrew Hauser, I work for the Dodgers, right? This is my family and what have you. And this is how I approach brushing my teeth. If I can’t like extract something, or at least take something you said, and spit it into a question where I can extract something that’s on me. And I just think the lack of accountability in continuing education is really scary right now. Because there’s never been more information out there in the world. Never. But you’ll have people that will say like, Hey, man, like, can you talk about your book and a podcast? No, like, that was the book, you know, hey, can you have Andrew Hauser on to do the same episode? 20 times? No, like Andrew Hauser. Right? Like, we’ll have more in the future, for sure. But there’s got to be some accountability on the listener to say, wait a minute, deflate your ego, I could care less what they tell me. I’m gonna move on and learn. And maybe that’s feedback for people. You know, if you’re listening, like, are you taking accountability of your own education? Are you taking down some of your suppositions and some of your like, tendencies, and no matter where you’re at in your career, because we’ve seen it, Andrew, and like, I can’t wait for you to come to one man. Like, I think I told you at our apprenticeship. We had a coach it was in you’re 50 years old, 25 years in pro sport, whatever. And we have a mixed group, right? Like, so we’ll have military we’ll have somebody who just owns a business, we had somebody own a car wash business. Well, I was trained coaches, this that whatever. And I remember the time and 19, or 20 year old personal trainer had given them feedback of like, you know, one of the exercises we did wasn’t clear, he’s like, I didn’t think your clarity was great there. And the guy was kind of like, Well, son, you know, no disrespect, but what do you know? And I’ve told this story before on the podcast, but a woman raised her hand, it was like, Well, I’m gonna check you there. And she was in a different organization, different fields. So it didn’t really intimidate the guy. And she basically said, it seems like you work with individuals that are this young man’s age. And, you know, if he doesn’t understand where you’re coming from, why would they because it’s my understanding that they’re not in a related field at all. And even though he’s a personal trainer, which the guy was denigrating to a degree. I mean, he’s still gonna know a little bit more than most athletes. And of course, n equals one, right? Like, they’re athletes that are very intelligent about their body, but that kind of check the guy for a minute. And he was like, oh, yeah, okay, but we don’t listen to that stuff enough.
Andrew Hauser 1:00:52
Well, and I think a few of these conversations, I think, are bringing us full circle, but I touched on being a teacher, that’s where I think if you are a teacher, or you’re trying to teach a new skill or a new craft, or you’re trying to grow your people, so that’s what I think that’s what as coaches, leaders are coaches, in my opinion, so and they’re teachers so if you’re going in and you’re teaching a skill, I think that’s the best way to learn in those scenarios is like, okay, like, are they getting this message? Are they able to pick this up you start whittling down and I always find it interesting. So in the medical world, and so I was a strength coach first I feel like I’m a coach at heart. But in the medical world a lot like you see, a ton of over coaching with different activities, and it’s very wordy, very wordy, and that’s one of those things Like, okay, like, they haven’t been on the, they haven’t had to either teach those skills to a colleague, or teach an athlete on the floor how to do those things, because those things, they don’t work, you know, like you put you find out quickly because it’s immediate feedback and maybe that is really what we need, we need that immediate feedback of, it’s much easier to get physically, but if I’m teaching athlete A, if we’re going through some running mechanic work, and he’s not getting something like, that’s not on him, that’s on me
Brett Bartholomew 1:05:40
100%
Andrew Hauser 1:05:41
talked about being the key, like, the key is gonna look different for everyone you work with. And so you need to, again, you need to meet the room, or meet that athlete where they’re at. And that’s going to look different for everyone that’s gonna look different for every situation. So I think that’s a big part of like, growing your tools and just getting when you can start identifying and getting the feedback or if you can identify, like, Hey, I’m not very good in this area, like, okay, what are my ways to start filling that bucket? To grow my skills there? Because everything we do in life is a skill and breathing is a skill. You know, like,
Brett Bartholomew 1:06:21
what I’m bad at? I’m very bad at that. Yeah, no, dude, you’re right. And we’ve come full circle, and I want to respect your time, so I’ll let you go. But I will say this, you’re the first person I think I’ve ever really told this to when we talked about feedback. You know, what compelled me because for a very long time, I was a purist, right about how I was raised in my industry of like, you know, don’t be on social media don’t have a brand, don’t have this be seen not heard. And I’ve talked about what made me make that switch. So I’m not gonna go down that rabbit hole again. But what I learned is, man sharing having a podcast, putting a book out doing these things, as been a way for me to one not only kind of journal, and Chronicle kind of my own thoughts, reflections ideas, because I’m not really a traditional journaler. Right. Like, it’s easy, just to easier to kind of see my evolution, where I can see what I’ve shared over the years and stuff like that. And then hopefully, that’s a digital time capsule for my kids someday, you know. But it’s also been a way for me to get feedback, because I haven’t ever worked with organization that gave me great feedback, right? And it’s why we tried to make these things better. But now I don’t listen to all feedback. Because when you put things out to a world of 8 billion people, you’ll have somebody that says, I don’t like the color of your book, you have to understand what feedback to listen to. Right? If you and I open up a Thai restaurant and somebody puts on Yelp that it was too spicy. Well, you’re the dumb ass that went to a Thai restaurant, you know what I mean? Like, you got to understand it in context. But I think I just always wanted to see, do I have anything worth sharing is I think I could help people. But do I really. And when I put myself out there unexposed or fully exposed, you start getting that, you know, now you have to be careful, because you can listen to the wrong feedback. And you know, what have you. And especially for me, I’m somebody that’s not good at celebrating accomplishments and what have you. So I never let the highs get too high. You definitely can’t let the lows get too low. But it but it has been an interesting way over the years to see, oh, wait a minute, we just got reached out to by a firefighter that uses our course. Like, I would have never thought oh, okay, now I get it. Okay, we need to go down this rabbit hole, it opens up different areas, the more you share, and the more you give, and you don’t have to have a brand, don’t have that social media. But even if you and I come in when we meet for coffee, and we do that when you’re in town, right? Like, the more we give, the more we grow. And the more you put stuff out and think and talk you’re getting feedback organically. And it all comes back to conversation and transparency.
Andrew Hauser 1:08:46
Well, so again, my mentor was great about this, he always told us like, Man, why Like, why wouldn’t I share what I do? So again, I was just mentored by a great person, but that’s the philosophy that I’ve taken. He’s like, if somebody really wants to know, like, I will give them the entire blueprint, like, nothing’s proprietary here, by the time you’re able to run this. First of all, like get your personnel, right, like get the people,
Brett Bartholomew 1:09:14
it’s hard enough.
Andrew Hauser 1:09:15
You know, you have the people in place, the skill sets in place, like you’re going to be well, you’re going to be doing something totally different. So like, why would we not share that information? It’s not, helping them. It’s not helping us. So frankly, and I think when you are able to help others in those situations, you’re growing, just by simplifying your message and getting better at saying like, here’s what we do. Here’s why we do it. Here’s how we went about it. Great. Like in that conversation. Like I feel like I do this all the time. Like, as I’m saying things out loud. And it’s the same thing if I need to write something I’m way better if I do a voice recording first. Before I even write it down because like, okay, like, I’m gonna find something in that conversation that organically just comes out. And it’s like, oh, well, this is what I’ve been trying to figure out all along. I just needed to say it out loud in the first place.
Brett Bartholomew 1:10:13
Yeah, yeah. Well said, man. Well, Andrew, I can’t tell how much I appreciate your time, man, you coming on and being transparent and it’s been far too long since we’ve had a chance to talk brass tacks like this, I always enjoyed it. People want to support you your work. Learn from you, what’s the best way? You know, we want to respect that if there’s a preferred method or medium? Or if there’s not tell them to buzz off whatever works for you.
Andrew Hauser 1:10:35
You know what? I’m not super quick on getting back to emails. But I love it when I get them. Because that opens up totally new, just questions and like, we can hop on a call or hop on a zoom call. So my email address if you want me to say it, or you want to
Brett Bartholomew 1:10:54
We’ll put it in the show notes, but tell us as well, because there’s some people driving in what have you in though? So that’s helpful to share it in multiple ways. We’ll take care of the show notes. You let us know what it is.
Andrew Hauser 1:11:02
Yeah, so it’s Andrew H. Pretty simple at La dodgers.com. And yeah, like I’ve always been a big proponent of just emailing people cold and be like, hey, like, I want to know more about what you do. So I love it when those things happen. Because again, it open to your point it opens up a completely different perspective and brown than we may have gone otherwise. I’m also on Instagram and Twitter. I couldn’t even tell you what my handles are on either of those right now.
Brett Bartholomew 1:11:32
We’ll find out for you. Don’t worry about it. We’ll find out where that well thank you again and guys, all of you again, appreciate you checking out the art of coaching podcast. If you’re a longtime listener, subscriber, again, make sure you support us at artofcoaching.com/podcast, you can become a patron really just word of mouth is the best way we’re taking time to write an honest, forthright review for myself and Andrew Hauser, this Brett Bartholomew art of coaching podcast, signing off
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