Our early communication style can be heavily influenced by parents, teachers and coaches but when we transition to different stages of life and form new relationships, sometimes those initial behaviors no longer serve us.
As humans, shedding those previous practices and forming new ones (albeit necessary) can feel completely foreign- as if we’ve forgotten who we are and where we came from. But when we examine how our past has influenced our present, we can use it to inform and improve our future.
In today’s episode Shaylah Simpson teaches us how to identify weaknesses in our current communication style and shares her tips for having more productive conversations.
Shaylah is a former semi-professional track and field athlete. She competed in the pole vault for Arizona State University and continued her post-collegiate career with Altis and Arizona Pole Vault Academy until she hung up the spikes in 2018. Shaylah currently works in Client Services for Conscious Family Law & Mediation in Boulder, Colorado while finishing up credits to get her certificate in Conflict Resolution and Mediation. In the future, she plans to get her Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy and work to help diverse groups of people cultivate stronger relationships with themselves and others.
We discuss:
- Navigating (multiple) identity crises
- Authoritative vs. authoritarian leadership
- Balancing resilience and vulnerability in relationships
- Checking assumptions and labeling emotions in conversation
Connect with Shaylah:
Via Instagram: @shay_simps
If you’re dealing with any of these issues- identity crisis, starting a new job, working on a relationship or going through a transition of any kind, we’d love to help. We’re currently accepting applications for our flagship mentorship group, The Coalition. If you’re interested in working through your challenges with a group that will have no problem holding your feet to the fire or walking you through the next step, check out artofcoaching.com/coalition!
Also, be sure to give some love to our new sponsor, SAGA fitness! They offer affordable and state of the art BFR (blood flow restriction) cuffs to keep you healthy and strong no matter your lifestyle. Brett20 gets you 20% off your order!
TRANSCRIPTION
Brett Bartholomew 0:03
Shaylah, welcome to the show.
Shaylah Simpson 0:05
Thanks, Brett. Thanks for having me.
Brett Bartholomew 0:07
There’s been a lot of trust over the years from you coming to learn boxing in my garage if you remember that back in the Phoenix days to now getting in the podcast.
Shaylah Simpson 0:16
Yeah, it’s been an honor to be able to say I’ve been punched in the side of the head by you
Brett Bartholomew 0:22
Do not say that our list. Really.
Shaylah Simpson 0:25
I had a helmet on I was good. I was good.
Brett Bartholomew 0:28
Yeah, the helmet I remember that. I was like, Hey, if you want to we’re trying to work on your head movement. And like there’s got to be a consequence or you’re never gonna learn. You throw the helmet on, which is crutches. anybody listening? It’s like one of those sparring pieces of headgear scratches your face, and Shayla had the best mean mug pseudo mean mug I’ve ever seen.
Shaylah Simpson 0:48
Yeah, that was awesome. I’m big on natural consequences. So that was a good learning experience for me.
Brett Bartholomew 0:54
Yeah, well, listen, speaking of learning experiences, it’s been a long time, since we’ve had a time, you know, a chance to talk. And this is always intriguing for me, because I got to witness you train as an athlete under the care of all this. And then when you said, Hey, I kind of want to do something different, in conjunction with your training, right? Like we had some fun, and you learned a bit of boxing, based on my background. And now talk to us a little bit about what you’re doing and how you went from that realm of things into what you’re doing now on the divorce attorney law kind of stuff. Yeah,
Shaylah Simpson 1:26
Yeah, so it was a little bit of a it was quite a journey for me getting to where I am now from when I actually made the decision to quit my track and field career. An it was a solid, what I want to say, probably like two year process until I figured out like, oh, okay, this is the journey I want to take. Because I think I’m sure a lot of athletes go through this a little bit of an identity crisis after the you know, they quit sport, especially if you’ve, you know, most people who train at a very high level past college. And I mean, in college, you’ve been an athlete, since you were like five, you know, so you’re in this mode of way of life for 20 plus years, and then all sudden, you’re just like out there in the world.
And you’re like, I don’t know who I am what I’m doing. So I kind of took some time after I decided to quit, and I was bartending at the time. So I just kind of kept doing that. And I really didn’t know what I wanted to do to be honest, like I just, I was super lost. And when I met my now boyfriend at the time, he was a traveling photographer. And so we met and he was like, hey, I want to go to Spain. And so I was like, Yeah, sure. Let’s do it.
Brett Bartholomew 2:43
And how old were you at that time?
Shaylah Simpson 2:45
I’m like, oh my god, I’m 29 now, I was about 26 going to be 27 I think,
Brett Bartholomew 2:51
Wow. So huge life transition, met your boyfriend. Now you’re going to Spain 27.
Shaylah Simpson 2:57
Yeah, and I quit bartending. I was like, I’m just I’ll figure it out when I get home. And I came home ended up working for his mom for a bit doing kind of marketing, social media stuff for a boutique that she owns in Phoenix. And then decided didn’t want to do that. Not my jam. And we went to Asia. And I was really, I got actually super intrigued into cultural anthropology. And so I actually applied to see boulder for their cultural anthropology master’s program, and got rejected. But it was okay, because I actually knew, you know, when you kind of start, I kind of started having a little bit of anxiety, when about the time I was going to find out if I made it in or not.
And I was like, alright, you know, if I make it in, I’ll take it as a sign that I should do that. I don’t make it in I think I know what I have to do. And I didn’t make it in and I was kind of relieved. And I was like, No, I think I need to go back. Get my master’s in marriage and family therapy. And I was also really intrigued in like, conflict resolution and different things like that. And I was talking with my uncle and he’s like, Well, you know, you can be a mediator, you just have to, you know, you gotta go get your certificate and stuff. So
I started that journey and getting my certificate and conflict resolution and mediation through Colorado State University, which is what I’m currently doing right now. It’s very part time. It’s just a certificate. And that led me to getting a job at my now law firm that I work at called Conscious family law and mediation.
Brett Bartholomew 4:38
Oh my God.
Shaylah Simpson 4:39
I knew you love that.
Brett Bartholomew 4:41
Yeah, there we go. Yeah, a little bit biased there.
Shaylah Simpson 4:43
Yeah, so they do Divorce mediation and relationship mediation, and it’s I mean, they do like divorce litigation and all that stuff too, but really intrigued in how they approach divorce and, and what drew me to them, you know, not only their name, but just though their way that they Approach it is very intentional. They’re not super, I guess the, you know, the stereotypical divorce lawyers, Sharky and cause conflict and all that. So I’ve been learning so much from them. And I’m super grateful.
Brett Bartholomew 5:12
Yeah, well, there’s a lot of jump off points here. So we’re gonna come back to like kind of rich reservoir, I definitely want to hit on the identity crisis thing for a second and then we’re going to come back to the divorce side, because I know you and I a little bit before the show, we’re talking about Episode 142, where Nate Hofmeister came on and kind of talked about, you know, being a leader who’s been through a divorce and how that kind of chipped away at self esteem, I’m the child of, of divorced parents, were your parents
Shaylah Simpson 5:39
They’re still together,
Brett Bartholomew 5:40
Right? And like, it’s interesting, right, is we can know parents that are together. And it’s a tough relationship. And then I look at my parents that they certainly went through the Rugeley phase like a lot of folks that go through divorce too, and now they couldn’t be better friends, you know, they have a super healthy relationship, and what have you. So that’s a fascinating nuance that I will go into, but let’s talk about this identity crisis, because this is something our listeners often talk about, is that okay, if we go in this direction?
Shaylah Simpson 6:09
Oh, absolutely. Let’s do it.
Brett Bartholomew 6:11
Okay, so going from like, semi professional track and field into a couple years of just, you know, Hey, what the hell am I gonna do and I’m curious, I’m open to going to Spain, I’m doing these things. What are some things that you kind of said to yourself both on the healthy end, and maybe even on the extreme end while you’re going through that, it because it’s so hard that your sense of self oftentimes is wrapped up in sport, talk to me a little bit more about what that crisis was, like, for anybody that’s listening. Now, that’s kind of not quite sure where they’re gonna go next.
Shaylah Simpson 6:43
Yeah, so I actually kind of went through it two different times. So after I graduated college, I was super burnt out, I was like, I didn’t want to step foot on a track, I wanted nothing to do with it. I didn’t want to smell a track as a very distinct smell, if no one is familiar with that, and I was just done. So I entered into, you know, a career in social work and working with the department of child safety, my company was outsourced by them. And I kind of just had this nudging of like, I should go back to track and you know, I eventually did but when I first was in that first sort of identity crisis, I remember when I graduated college, and I didn’t really have any intention at the time of ever going back I thought I was done.
And I remember everyone kept saying, what are you going to do now? What are you going to do now? And in my head, I was like, I don’t know what the hell I’m going to do. Like everyone’s been telling me what to do my whole life like you know, obviously in a constructive way but you know, it’s like, you grow up you go to school you show up at this time practice at this time you go to your meet you do this you go into this college, this you know, you’re kind of handed this step by step of like, this is what you’re doing. Like there’s not necessarily I don’t remember any sort of, like, certain distinct time where someone was like, Hey, do you want to do this?
Like I was just always kind of the decision was there for me. And not that that’s necessarily a bad or good thing. I think there’s positives and negatives to that, but I was just like, I don’t even know my own mind really, like outside of track and field. You know, like I knew my mind. in track and field. I didn’t know who Shaylah was. Outside of track and field. I remember feeling really awkward. Because I’d always used to introduce myself and like, oh, yeah, I’m Shaylah, I’m a pole vaulter ASU. And then I introduce myself and I’d be like, Yeah, I’m Shaylah Shaylah. Just Shaylah, just a Shaylah it’s me, I don’t know who I am after that.
So I went to social work and then had this huge nudging to go back to track after about a year and I did that. And then once that was done, went on that journey, and I think I kind of gave myself some more, I gave myself a little more grace, and taking the time to figure it out. You know, like I was bartending. I was making money, I was fine, but it was funny after I quit, I went over my parents house, and like the first thing that my dad asked me, he was like, what kind of job you’re gonna get and I was like, Dad, I literally just quit five minutes ago. Can you give me a second?
And so I gave myself some time on that. I went through a lot of different ups and downs of feeling like I just didn’t really know what I wanted to contribute to the world. I didn’t really know because I mean, I just I contributed on the track. I just didn’t, I didn’t know what I really really cared about. Because social work burnt me out of psych like anything psych related. Like I was interested in it, but I was like, Yeah, never gonna go back to social work psychology. Don’t want anything to do with it? Because it just really burned me out. And anyone who’s in the social work field, you know, knows what I’m talking about. So.
Brett Bartholomew 10:09
But one thing about this, if I can jump in for a minute, that I think is often underrated, and I had a conversation with a member of our coalition mentoring group this morning about it, because he said, You know, I feel awful because there’s nothing right now that I’m really trying to accomplish. I’m just trying to get my mind right. So I can kind of focus on next steps. And I don’t always know what that’s going to be. And I said, Well, that’s not a bad thing and feel free to correct me. If you think this is BS. It’s like, you know, we can become too objective focused. And we often think that relaxation equals complacency.
Brett Bartholomew 10:40
And that’s not the truth. You know, this one article, I remember reading kind of just talks about, hey, you know, creativity requires uninterrupted focus, whether you’re going for a walk or sitting quietly on a couch, and I remember them talking about and it’s everybody’s favorite example. You know, Steve Jobs did most of his serious conversations while walking or wandering and Jack Dorsey wanders about and then I remember, I’m from Omaha. So they always talked about Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger talked about Warren Buffett and said, Well, half the time he just spent sitting on his ass reading.
And then finally, there was this Nobel Prize winning guy, his name is Amos Tversky. And he was a psychologist. And you know, one thing that he said is you waste years by not being willing to waste hours and I’m paraphrasing there, but my point is, is I wonder if this was true with you? We often think that quote unquote, time wasted just kind of wandering, you know, contemplating what we’re going to do next but also not stressing ourselves out it’s got such a negative stigma but it can be the answer you need to kind of put some wheels in motion that otherwise you just tend to go on autopilot with. Did you ever find that that it actually benefited you to just waste a little time get outside and do quote unquote, unproductive stuff?
Shaylah Simpson 11:52
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think if you’re wanting to like jog any sort of like creative part of you, you know, you have to do that. I mean, just in your I attended your summit over the weekend and learned a lot. Plug in there for you, but it was what you know, oh my god, I’m blanking on his name, the guy who referred to does
Brett Bartholomew 12:15
Oh, Andrew Lesley.
Shaylah Simpson 12:16
Yeah, where he’s just like, you’ve got to you know, you’re having kind of this block little bit, you got to do something totally different, which is sort of what I did. I think I just started going like, every which direction, I actually wanted to sell everything I owned, and go and live in a van. Do the whole van life.
Brett Bartholomew 12:38
Did you do it?
Shaylah Simpson 12:39
No, I actually, that was a very difficult conversation with my parents. They were not. That was a hard, I was really gung ho on it. I was like, dead set on it.
Brett Bartholomew 12:51
You say, Come on, walk me through this, we need to do some role playing here, like I’m your dad or your mom. And I need you to kind of just give me an example of how you approach this. Sell me on you doing hashtag van life.
Shaylah Simpson 13:02
Yeah So I was like, you know, I have family in East Coast. So my whole plan was like, I’m gonna go, I’m going to sell everything I own. I already like know, who’s going to build out my van, how everything I did all the research, and I want to go and I want to travel across the US. And I want to, like volunteer along the way and learn people’s stories and like, take pictures of people. And I wanted to have substance to it. You know, it wasn’t me just wanting to like, you know, bum around and like, down by the river kind of thing. Like I really wanted it was like super purposeful. And had a lot of purpose behind it.
And my mom, which was actually like a pretty painful like compensation. I remember. She said, You need to get a job get a life and grow up.
Brett Bartholomew 13:53
Wow,
Shaylah Simpson 13:54
That was yeah, that was a painful, you know, thing to hear. Because I think there was so much of me that felt like I had, I did things for other people all the time. And this was like the one thing I wanted to do for myself. And at this time, I’ll have to disclaimer, I hadn’t met my boyfriend at the time. So when I did meet him, it was like very, kind of very close to this point of like me wanting to pack up and leave and everything. So when he, you know, came in and was like, let’s go to Spain. I was like, Yeah, let’s go buy the tickets. were gone.
So it was kind of serendipitous in that sense. I think I you know, I really wanted to travel. That was something I really wanted to do for myself. And that was a means for that. And I was really craving purpose in my life. You know, with helping people and wanting to tell people stories and learn people’s stories. I guess I could have one job and it would it would literally just be like, talk to everybody and just learn their story. Like that would be like the best job ever. It’s me.
Brett Bartholomew 14:58
Listen, I mean, I do a podcast right? So I get that I want to ask you a question. And by no means is it any kind of psychoanalysis? It’s genuine curiosity. There’s been some times and I’ll give you a frame of reference. So like my questions clear, I sometimes will have trouble despite how much I love communication and language, always finding words to express something, right?
Brett Bartholomew 15:20
So whenever I read literature, whether it’s for my doctorate or a book, like the new book I’m working on, I found a passage the other day, and I’m like, Man, that’s a wonderful way they put it. That’s what I’ve been trying to express. It’s also why I like certain visuals and graphics, right, which is not my skill set. I’m not an artistic person. Do you feel like that part of why you wanted to have conversations with people, I mean, I know you love people. We’ve always had great conversations. But you feel like part of that is when you hear somebody else’s story, or you hear their way of thinking, it helps you make sense of yourself a little bit.
Shaylah Simpson 15:51
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think, and weirdly, you know, I love hearing people’s pain too. I know, that sounds a little weird to say.
Brett Bartholomew 16:04
There’s who’ll I understand that.
Shaylah Simpson 16:06
Yeah, because I think you know, the one of the only things that one of many things that connect us is that we all feel pain at some point in our lives. Yeah, you know, whatever that may be physical, emotional, spiritual, whatever. And I think that’s something that really connects us all. I don’t think there’s any purpose in comparing pain, like, oh, I had worse pain than you. That’s not. Yeah, right. Yeah. So I just totally got sidetracked on
Brett Bartholomew 16:37
So you’re talking about when you ask other people questions, because you had mentioned, you want to do something for yourself. You’re often a people pleaser, to a degree and you want to just have a conversation. And then I asked you, do you feel like part of that is wanting to hear other people’s perspectives, so it can help maybe provide language or insight into why you know, something you were feeling? Or something you struggled with? Or helped you make sense of yourself? So to speak, that was the nature of the question.
Shaylah Simpson 17:02
Yes, yes, exactly. I think 100% Yes, on that. And I think that’s something that I’ll always want to do. And because I always want to gain more knowledge and understanding of myself, and you know, how that relates to other people. And I think, you know, you don’t know what you don’t know, like, that’s the biggest, like one of the biggest, you know, I operate from three perspectives, I feel like in my life is you don’t know what you don’t know, common sense is not so common. And in general, I truly believe people are just doing the best they can with the tools they have at the time. And, you know, when you don’t know what you don’t know, you know, like, if someone tells me their story, and I recognize myself in that, and I can make that connection. How great is that? You know, I just learned something about myself that I didn’t know before
Brett Bartholomew 17:54
100% And, and I think that says something for you who you know, you had been coached for a large number of years. And you know, that’s part of a coach’s job, right to help somebody you facilitate a level of self discovery, right? You never play psychologist or psychiatrist. But you’ve got to play that here. Here’s another question within that I’m curious on your end, you know, a lot of times I try to get coaches or leaders to get outside their comfort zone, and they think they do, right. For example, I remember talking to a coach saying, Hey, you should try x, y, and Zed. This is pretty interesting. And they just wanted to kind of do staff education with their own staff, they didn’t really like getting outside of their walls much.
Brett Bartholomew 18:29
And they felt like because they did so much education internally, they were pushing themselves, when in reality, they’re kind of insulating themselves. Talk to me about an example. And it’s okay, if you need some silence to think about it, where you felt like you were pushing yourself to grow as a person. But really, you were totally hiding in a comfort zone, right? Or you were only pushing yourself within the context of an arena. You were already comfortable pushing yourself. And you know, it wasn’t something that was actually making you get outside of yourself. Does that question make sense to you?
Shaylah Simpson 18:59
Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah, I might need like, just a minute to think, that’s a great question.
Brett Bartholomew 19:08
I can give you something that might help like, I think with athletes too, or you like being Do you still like being active? Or are you one of those folks that after athletic competition, you’re like, No, I’m done with the weight room? I’m done with everything.
Shaylah Simpson 19:18
No, I definitely still like being active and it just looks so much different now. You know,
Brett Bartholomew 19:22
Sure. so my point with that is some people do like yeah, I get out of my comfort zone. But let’s say they like working out. And yeah, it’s great that they push themselves and they go do strenuous hard workouts, but that’s not always the same context of pushing themselves out of their comfort zone because they like exercise. They like that feeling. Right? So this could be well I mean, you go into another country, you know, with how long they had, you know, and your boyfriend at that point in time.
Shaylah Simpson 19:48
We booked the flight after a month of knowing each other
Brett Bartholomew 19:55
Had many relationships like that?
Shaylah Simpson 19:57
No, not really. I mean, I definitely tend to, you know, getting personal, I guess I tend to very fall very quickly for people, which I think I used to think that made me really weak. But I kind of view it a little bit more as a strength now that, you know, I do choose to see the good in people. I don’t assume that everyone’s out to get me. So sometimes it burns me and sometimes it doesn’t. And, you know, luckily, this is a situation it didn’t burn. Yeah, I think, Wow.
Brett Bartholomew 20:35
We can come back to it, right, because I do another question. And maybe it’ll help you indirectly
Shaylah Simpson 20:40
Well, actually, I think the first thing that kind of comes to mind is traveling by myself. I traveled to Europe in 2016, I believe, by myself for six weeks, I had never left the country other than going to Mexico. I was just like, Yeah, I’ve traveled, you know, I’m no problem. It was like the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I mean, I considered myself like going from Phoenix, Arizona, I’m a city girl, like, I might as well have been raised in the middle of nowhere, when I was in Paris, and like London, and like an actual city. I mean, it took me an hour to find the parish train station inside of the airport that I was in. Like, I sat down on a bench like an hour after an hour and cried because I was like, This is insane.
Brett Bartholomew 21:34
You’re probably not alone in that you’re navigating a new area. This is during a time in your life where a personal identity, you know, you’re trying to figure those things out. It seems like you’re somebody that likes to give people the benefit of the doubt you’re curious. So you know, it’s interesting. Do you feel like any of that your ability to cope with those new environments, was held because of naivete not knowing what you didn’t know, right? I’m just enjoying being out of the country and seeing what comes?
Shaylah Simpson 21:58
Yeah. And I think, you know, I actually really, I really wanted to be uncomfortable, you know, and I don’t think I realized that beforehand. As much as it was really hard. I really wanted to be uncomfortable, you know, and I think I’ve had a very comfortable life. You know, growing up, I get a good town, and you know, good household, I would, you know, had a great education. I mean, everything’s just been pretty gravy for me. So I definitely have always, I craved that. uncomfortability because, I knew I needed it. You know, I was I think I was also very bored in my life, like in my own life.
Brett Bartholomew 22:40
And this was so like when you are coached. For example, let’s say we go back to athlete Shaylah, what kind of coaching Did you perceive that you needed? Given what you just said that you kind of had a you know, relatively comfortable life, right? And like you said, this isn’t the suffering Olympics, everybody’s got their own stuff, good, bad, what have you. But how would somebody have coached you? And then in turn, how have you learned how you like to be coached, and switch that out? So whether you’re communicating with your significant other now, or other people during any form of mediation, or just basic conversation, right? Have you learned kind of how to coach and communicate as a default of how people communicated with and coach you?
Shaylah Simpson 23:22
Yeah, I knew, like, when I decided to go back to track after I had taken about a year off, I knew I needed something completely different. And that was actually sparked from reading the book. The sports gene, or is it?
Brett Bartholomew 23:36
Yeah, yeah.
Shaylah Simpson 23:38
So and that’s what made the decision for me to go to Exos and train there for a while, because I knew I needed completely different training like I mean, you saw me try to navigate, you know, moving around boxing and footwork and going sideways, when I had like, gone straight for 20 years, like me trying to move in a circle and like left or right was the most. Yeah, you would have thought I was not an athlete at all. And so that that kind of sparked that. And I guess what I’ve learned in sorry, the question of like, what, how I knew I needed to be coached differently. Right, is that it?
Brett Bartholomew 24:25
Yeah, just so you know, given the nature that how you describe yourself, how did you need to be coached? How did you to get out of your comfort zone? And then is there anything that you took from that experience having been coach that you notice you started doing with other people because we tend to model those experiences, right? Like, for example, I tell I’ve talked about this in previous podcast, this is whether when I was an athlete, or just now as a human being or a professional, I’m not somebody that really needs like when I lost my first boxing match, I don’t really want to hug you know, I want to be I want to go and dissect what I did wrong, learn and get Back at it.
But that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with somebody that needed the opposite of that, right? That just I know me. I know, I’m ready. I’m a problem solver. I need to know what I did wrong, go back. And that gives me peace, how did you want to be coached? And then how has that affected you in the way you communicate? Now?
Shaylah Simpson 25:15
You know, I honestly, I don’t think I recognized how I wanted to be coached, I knew I how wanted to train. I don’t think I recognize how I wanted to be coached until recently, you know, looking back at it. I don’t like the way I was coached. And,
Brett Bartholomew 25:15
In what way.
Shaylah Simpson 25:43
So, I mean, I’ve had a lot of different coaches and a lot of different coaching styles, which is been great. I definitely looking back, you know, I can say now, I wish I would have been coached in a more collaborative way, I wish I would have been more pulled into the process. You know, I think I started off that way at a young age went learning Pole Vault, which is a very technical, technical event. And my coach that I first learned from from like, when I was in seventh grade to high school, he always talked about being a student of your event, and he was really big on, you know, watching film and doing all that.
And I really liked that and really appreciated that. And then, you know, it’s not that we didn’t watch film or anything like that in college. And my college coach, actually, it was basically like, my second dad, you know, like he, so that transition was really easy for me. But I also think it was a very special relationship, which was great, but also turned super bad in the end. Which I do want to disclaimer, you know, I don’t ever want, you know, anyone to think or, you know, when I talk like that I’m blaming anyone for my personal life choices, you know what I mean?
I don’t ever want anyone to think that I just know, like, this is just what I’ve learned from my experiences looking back and like how to, you know, and in a negative way it’s served me You know, I can look at that acknowledge that now. But I do want a disclaimer that I’m not playing the victim, or, you know, like blaming anyone for my own personal decision. So I do want to note that, but
Brett Bartholomew 27:27
Noted.
Shaylah Simpson 27:29
Yes, thanks. And I just think it was a lot more of like, authoritarian style coaching, and which I came from a more authoritarian style household as well. So looking, you know, I’m like, really dissecting it, like recently, of, you know, the combination of that, and how much that affected me having those two together. And then after I knew, I didn’t go back to my college coach, after I decided to come train, went to train an artist, and he was a little more I didn’t feel like very connected to him. Like, that’s a big thing for me to like, okay, like collaboration, knowledge, a connection, you know,
Like, I want to feel like I have a good relationship with you. Like, I’m a very relational person. And so, and I crave that, and so I didn’t really feel that connected to him. And he wasn’t like, I’ve always had just pole vault coaches, which is another interesting thing, too. He wasn’t just a football coach. He was a jumps coach. So you know, he split his time between a lot of different things. He was super busy, and I think that probably added into it and all that. And then I kind of went ended, quit autists went to another coach. And he was really great, actually, it’s a small club down in like Queen Creek, Arizona called Arizona polo Academy.
And, he was a little bit more on par with my high school coach, actually, where, you know, he really made you think of what do you think went wrong? You know, when you look at this what would you fix you know, he really made you take authority over your jumping style, and your training style and stuff. So and I really appreciated that. So I think I ended on a pretty good note, but there was a lot of stuff. I think in college that really affected me a lot.
Brett Bartholomew 29:30
Yeah, well, I want to point it out. I want to point this out. I think one of the things that is so critical about this is when you’re a leader of any kind a manager or a coach, what have you, it’s very easy to think we know what other people want. You know, we read books, we do this, we’ve gone through experiences. We think we know what other people want, but let’s use you for example, right? You admitted and I think there’d be many people including myself that would admit this as well. You don’t always know what you want when you’re in the position of like stakeholder or follower or student.
So For other people that think they know, you know, now there’s some times they’re gonna have an idea of, hey, here’s best practices or here’s something that’s worked. It’s all a process of experimentation, though, right? And I think just for the audience, you know it because it’s very easy to mix these words up. When we say authoritarian, versus like authoritative when Shaylah was talking about coming from an authoritarian household is sometimes this can be strict obedience to authority, things like that, where authoritative can be alright, it’s yourself confident, right, but it’s not quite as dictator esque.
And those words can easily get confused. But I also think just to touch on your note of making sure that it doesn’t come across the wrong way. I don’t think it would I mean, this is the nature and you know, better than I do. The nature of conflict is that occurs in so many different dimensions, right? Somebody can have cognitive conflict effective, like affective emotional and behavioral. So for example, sometimes people just have clashes on the strategy or the opinion or it’s a tough personality. Now, we’ve seen plenty of people that man, it seems like they’re fighting and they’re arguing. If you came in watch me coach, somebody I’m working with right now. We are constantly giving each other the hardest time.
I mean, it gets personal. But it’s what works for us because we mess around. We’re joking. It’s very old school, New York, dimly lit comedy club after hours kind of stuff.
Shaylah Simpson 31:25
Totally.
Brett Bartholomew 31:25
And I think you and I even had that when you’d come box, you know, I could playfully kind of jab at you always in context, you could do the same back. But it’s tricky, right? And I would imagine you see this now even with it. And I don’t know how involved you are in the mediations or just that process. So educate me, but the learnings from coaching to now the legal aspect of stuff and divorce and relationships. That’s what’s fascinating to me, because it’s communication that permeates it all. And that’s what I’d love to learn more about how you took all that and it’s really molded you now.
Shaylah Simpson 31:58
Yeah, and I really appreciate you also, you know, like kind of making the clarification on you know, authority, the difference, I guess, differentiation between authoritarian and authoritative and all that. And, and I think, you know, it all just comes down to, you know, your coaching style, you know, you have a secure relationship with your athlete, you know, like, you know, the boundaries that you can push with each other. And that comes from having like a strong, secure relationship. And I don’t remember, I don’t know if you remember this, but I remember when, when you were still at Exos. And we’re outside talking and I think you were you were talking to me about how you were wanting to write your book.
And I don’t remember even how I got on a conversation. And I remember telling you that I had this little like theory in my head, that you know, how there’s different you know, like attachment styles, or you know, they’re secure, anxious, avoidant, disorganized, all that, that I feel like that can easily be translated over to like a coach athlete relationship, you know, where it’s like, you could have a super anxious, avoidant relationship between a coach and athlete and you can have a really secure relationship, you can have a super dysfunctional relationship. So I think that, you know, there’s so much intrigue for me to dive into into that because I think people don’t Well, I think people realize but I don’t think they realize the importance maybe of it of the relationship that you have with your athlete and like how
Or not even that like an athlete like your employees, your every you know, and on all transcending into all relationships, like it all is so interconnected, and in like, understanding, like the play of what you guys can do with each other, it all goes back to like, well, how are you guys like, what’s your attachment style between each other, which is sounds like a weird thing to say, you know, but that just makes sense. I don’t know if you remember me like me saying that was such a passing conversation.
Brett Bartholomew 33:59
But yeah, I listened. I mean, there, what you’re talking about makes sense. And of course, I remember our conversations, you know, I’d lie if I could tell you I could transcribe them right but I remember that this is what instituted some conversations between us and you’re spot on. It’s part of our mission now to help people understand things learned in sport and coaching transcend into the business world because I think that’s very obvious for people that come from the medical world and the military. It’s often a stigma we have to fight, strength and conditioning coaches, or performance coaches aren’t and we’ve talked about this in numerous episodes.
We’re not always looked at in the same light as other professions, because a lot of people don’t really know what it is. But there’s so much that goes on with the performance coach dynamic between his thinking about it, right, like as a pole vaulter, and that and in this is tricky. People will try to make this into a false dichotomy. But let’s say somebody’s really good at a particular sport. Well, the relationship you have with that coach in the sporting context is not always the same that you’re going to have with the performance coach now, I get that but what I’m saying is, there were a lot of athletes that I worked with that were prodigious at their sport.
And I usually think of combat sports, whether it was the the MMA fighters I worked with, or boxers or what have you, but in the weight room and in the performance type stuff, I mean, they were awful movers, they were out of their environment. And that creates a different level of what’s the word I want to look at of insecurity. And also it requires a different strategy. And we see it too. Even if I go into a team or organization. And I speak, there’s people eager to learn. And there’s people that are like, Oh, are you here for my job? So like those and the answer’s no, never. But there’s so many little things that happened within the context that you have to have different styles of approach you have to have.
And you also have to understand that these other people, they bring so much baggage into that they do and that’s where I’d be interested to hear more about your education on conflict resolution, and what you’ve learned. Now, on that side of things that looking back, you’re like, oh, yeah, this would have helped me assert myself when I was an athlete, or this would have helped me to be able to say this, talk to me a little bit more about your learnings in that side now?
Shaylah Simpson 36:05
Oh, my gosh, yeah. When I started my course, it was honestly, just in the first like Fundamentals course. When I started learning about it, because we were, you know, we were practicing and doing different exercises and assignments on, you know, reframing and, you know, dealing like learning emotions, and dealing with emotions in a conversation and all of that. And, and I remember the first time that I tried to do like, reframing, it was really hard. It was really, I mean, it’s a hard skill anyways, it’s super uncomfortable. But when you first start to do it, but I remember feeling like I didn’t, I almost like didn’t know how to label emotions.
Or I didn’t know how to label my own emotions, which was a weird realization. And then one thing that we had to do, too, was we had to one of the roll planning exercises that we had to do was like, you know, we had to, like, speak about, in whatever situation it was, we had to speak about, like, what our needs were. And I had no clue how to articulate what I needed.
Brett Bartholomew 37:23
Why not Shaylah?
Shaylah Simpson 37:25
Because I don’t think, I think, and I’m, you know, just obviously, speaking from personal experience, I think I let myself be like, groomed as an athlete a little bit more robotic. And I don’t think there was always necessarily a lot of room for collaboration, in certain coaching relationships that I had, to where, I didn’t know how to say what I needed, even though I knew, I feel like I could look back, like I obviously had a need that was not being met, which led to breakdowns in communications and relationships and stuff.
I just, you know, it’s like, you get your, you know, your workout for the day you do it, you know, the coach, you says jump, you say how high you know, exactly, you’re given your weight card, when you go into the weight room, like it just is. So it’s just so robotic, in a sense, you know, I was like, I it was like, I didn’t even I didn’t know how to speak up for like, other parts of my brain and like, my needs, like I knew I was very in tune with myself from a physical sense. You know, like, I knew how much I could push myself physically, you know, in a workout or because I knew my body athletes are really in tune with their bodies. But I wasn’t in tune with, like, my emotions.
And I look back at this one particular kind of moment. Where we used to train with the sprinters the first like six or eight weeks. And I remember we were doing this one workout, and you know, you’re getting done with a one set or whatever, and you got your hands on your hips, or over or over your head or whatever. And you’re kind of making that like, scrunched face where you’re like, Damn, I’m hurting, but like, I’m good kind of thing. And he said, you know, like, wipe that look off your face wiped out, like you can’t Don’t let anyone know that you’re hurting. Don’t let anyone know that you’re hurting
Brett Bartholomew 39:35
Your coach said this?
Shaylah Simpson 39:36
Yeah. And I understood what he was saying, you know, in that context of like, you know, if you say that you do the prelims of 100 meter dash or whatever, and you’re like, on the ground after the prelims, like huffing and puffing, and then like, everyone else is around you, like say, you made the finals, but everyone else around it was like, Oh, she’s dead. You know, she gave it all she had in the prelims you know, like, she’s not Did you know we’re going to smoker and the finals, whatever it was kind of that like, Be, it was sort of like a little bit of resiliency, it was a sort of a little bit like, don’t give away what’s going on like, inside your body and inside your head.
Brett Bartholomew 40:16
This is where I’m gonna push on you though. And I do this, because it would be a totally lame conversation, right? If you and I seemed like echo chambers for each other. So we’re going to have some fun with this. And I want to think about how I want to phrase this. So you talk about, you know, certain needs that weren’t met in the coach athlete relationship. But certainly, you’ve been with your boyfriend a while now. Right? How long? Have you guys been together? If you don’t mind me asking?
Shaylah Simpson 40:42
Yeah, two and a half years, almost three.
Brett Bartholomew 40:44
So certainly, you’ve had to make sure needs are met there that you maybe didn’t know how to vocalize Right. And, of course, we don’t need to get like, I’m always gonna respect your privacy, but just talking in general, like, I’ll even use my wife and I right, like, we had very different backgrounds in terms of intimacy and experiences, dating and things like that, right? We’re both from Omaha, Nebraska, we met in Florida. So it’s not we didn’t grow up around one another, we legitimately met when I was like, 25, or 26? I can’t remember. I think it was 25.
But like, every relationship has to figure out what are boundaries with intimacy, what quote, unquote, love language do I have? What do we share in common? And also, what do we celebrate that’s different? So here’s my question, and it feeds into something else is, where did you find that mix of and I’ll go back to what what you said in the summit, you have to have vulnerability, because you have to be open in a relationship, especially if you want those aspects of the relationship to be good. But you still need to maintain resilience in terms of being your own person overcoming hardship, trusting yourself, or what have you. How do you find that balance? You have resilience and vulnerability to now make a happy relationship?
Shaylah Simpson 41:54
Oh, man, you know, I am so glad you asked that. And I and I’m still learning, obviously. Yeah. And so. But that was a big learning process when him and I first started dating, because I really didn’t want to mess it up. And you know, I’ve been in a lot of really dysfunctional relationships. Pretty much from when I first started dating, and I knew I really didn’t want to mess this up. And I really wanted to communicate really well with him. I didn’t know exactly what that looked like, but I just knew I wanted to communicate well with him. And I immediately felt a sense of comfortability with him. So that obviously helped, but he was actually raised much different than I was in the sense of communication style.
So you know, his mom, which I’ve had extensive conversations with her about it, you know, when he was upset, or there was something that went wrong or disciplinary, it was a lot of talking through things like labeling emotions, and, okay, you know, you’re not angry, you’re disappointed, and you’re, you know, like, like, helping him kind of navigate that. And he and I remember being so impressed with him, like how well he was able to state what he needed, or what he was feeling in a very, like non combative way. Because my default is, like, prepare for battle. That’s, my default and like communication, when I’m sure,
Brett Bartholomew 43:28
I need to know why. Why?
Shaylah Simpson 43:30
I think it’s because growing up in that more authoritarian style, it was very much like, end of conversation. No, because I said, so there was, you know, not a lot of reason there’s a lot like, there, there was just no, it was because I said, so, you know, there was no discussion
Brett Bartholomew 43:50
on the most dangerous things you can say in any kind of interaction.
Shaylah Simpson 43:54
Right? Yeah. And so it was just like, I was just so used to that. And so I think I was constantly sort of clawing at to be heard. And, then I and I think I felt that in, in my college relationship with my coach, which like, blew up at some point to where I almost wanted to transfer, but transferring wasn’t as easy as it was now as it is now. And I’m glad I didn’t but anyways, it was like, I look back and like, what was the need that wasn’t being met, and it was just always went back to like, I was never heard. And, that was sort of the pattern I felt in relationships before him was like, something’s not translating to like, I’m not being heard. Or like I would try and say like, something that would upset me or whatever. And it was like, didn’t register.
Brett Bartholomew 44:54
I think that goes hand in hand with one thing we try to say in our workshops is it’s it’s rarely an information barrier. It’s a translation barrier, you can think that you have said something in the perfect way. And you’ve provided data and the rational breakdown of why it makes sense. And that other person just like no, no chance, I’m not given an edge. And then you realize, wow, everything that I’ve been taught in terms of seeking to understand reframing it sometimes in what I thought was an effective way, maybe even using that person’s words, right? Querying to be heard, and what have you, and they can still be like, No, that’s not it. And you’re like, where did I go wrong here? Am I losing my damn mind?
Shaylah Simpson 45:36
Right. And I mean, it was like, there were so many instances. And then I think that’s where I also it was, for me, it was like, I had no idea to find the gray area of battle versus like, shut down completely, you know, there was no in between for me, because I think I, you know, would revert back. And a big thing for me, is like, I never wanted to let anyone know that they had hurt my feelings, or, or you know, that my feelings had been hurt by something. Like, I never wanted to disclose that because I felt like it was going to give them power over me or like they knew that they had power to affect me,
Brett Bartholomew 46:16
Think about this by you not being willing to do that. You’re unwilling to relent your power, right? And that’s the tricky thing is power. So dynamic, right? If you’re in a relationship, you genuinely it’s a constant free flowing thing. You have power, I have power. I think that that’s tricky. And so do you consider and I want to think about how I frame this because, again, I’m far from a perfect communicator, that’s the fun of studying it. You didn’t want them to have that power over you. So your go to power was just No, I’m not going to disclose this information. I’m going to keep my cards close to the chest.
Shaylah Simpson 46:53
Yeah, it was kind of like, Oh, I’m cool. You know,
Brett Bartholomew 46:56
Oh, like, what do you want? How do you expect anybody? And again, this is me politely pushing back, right? Like, how do you expect anybody because there’s somebody listening right now that this is happening, somebody’s listening, and they’re trying to get through to somebody, and maybe they relate to what you’re saying, and they’re like, I can’t, how can they maybe break down that barrier, in order to not win the power game, but you know what I mean, in order to just say, hey, like, transfer a little bit to me, I’m not I’m not gonna do anything bad here. I’m trying to resolve the conflict. What’s one way that you think might help from your own experience?
Shaylah Simpson 47:29
Well, I yeah, I mean, I can definitely tell you that the longer you withhold, I mean, it’s just it’s gonna backfire. You know, at one point or another. And I think, you know, it can take some time. I mean, I remember when I was ending one relationship that it took me months, like, months, like, every day, I woke up, and I was like, This is not good. This is not good. And I don’t know why. Like, yeah, yo, I’m in therapy, trying to figure it out.
Brett Bartholomew 48:02
This is good, good.
Shaylah Simpson 48:05
So it’s like, I could not, it was like, also, having uncomfortable conversations makes me very uncomfortable. And so that’s something I’m really learning to, like, sit in the uncomfortability. Like, it’s okay. And all of that.
Brett Bartholomew 48:23
Think you’re on the wrong podcast
Shaylah Simpson 48:25
Right? Yeah, and, like, also, it’s funny, because as much as like, I was trying to, you know, almost like, hold this power, like, you’re not gonna have power over me. I also didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. You know what I mean? Like, I didn’t want to hurt anyone, by being like, Hey, this is effed up, like what we’re doing to each other, like, and I knew that the relationship would end like I knew the second I had this conversation, there was like, there was no going back. You know what I mean? Like, the relationship was done. The second I opened up that conversation.
So I think one big thing I would say I learned in all of that is, you have to prepare yourself for an answer that you don’t want to hear, you know, you mean, you can’t just sit there and like, play the conversation over and over in your head and be like, Yeah, this is how it’s gonna go. You know, and then you have the conversation. And it’s like, goes the complete opposite, which is usually what ends up happening. I think you have to let go of all expectations of outcome from the conversation. And you have to be willing to get an answer that you don’t want, you might not want to hear, you know, and it might take a long time for you to feel finally okay with that.
Brett Bartholomew 49:44
I think those are great points. I think one mistake I know I made if I can add to it in previous failed relationships, is sometimes I’d rely on text. You know, I remember this in my early 20s. In you know, there were times where I felt like I want to say this clear Really, so I’m going to sleep on it. And I’m going to send a text that, in my mind, I thought was impossible to understand or misunderstand, right? I thought this was impossible to misunderstand. And I thought when I send this, if they just see it, I lay it out. Whenever they’re in doubt, even if I don’t say it clearly face to face. This text is like a written record. This is what I meant. This is how I feel what have you.
But then the issue is, is we make the mistake of thinking that text is it. So I remember one time I sent this text, and I don’t remember the context of it, right. But let’s say that it was I’m sorry, this is how I feel. This is what I was trying to say. This is what I mean, you know. And the issue is, it’s never just that text. Now the conversation happens rapidly over text. And there’s bound to be a misinterpretation again, because text, just like emails, a poor context rich medium, right? You and I are talking on a relatively context rich medium, you hear my tonality, I see your head nodding, you know, even if the audience doesn’t see us, they can understand by the tone in our voice, that there’s a mutual, like, we’re working together to try to help the audience here.
And then what I realized is like, no, oh, crap, now I ended up saying something stupid again. And she would dwell on that. And so we would make progress in our relationship. But then she’d go back and cycle through those texts. And admittedly, you know, she’d kind of just make herself angry again. And, we knew that in the relationship, she’s like, I have a tendency to go, and I’ll look at these texts, and I’ll be over a feeling or an emotion, but then I’ll just make myself angry. So then I’m like, Well, shit, I’m not gonna text you again. And it just gets so tricky in this dynamic, no matter what the relationship is, romantically. You just have to be able to find that person, swallow your pride, and say, Listen, this is what I’m trying to achieve. Help me get there.
And I would imagine in your profession, it’s also important, just like in life, to really use these kinds of phrases of neutral understanding, it sounds like it seems like it looks like instead of some other kind of declarative force, what kind of language are those? Do you find those helpful? If somebody says, It sounds like you’re upset, or it seems like something might be bugging you? Or it looks like I’ve done something wrong here? Do those help you at all?
Shaylah Simpson 52:07
Oh, my gosh, yeah. And that goes back to the whole email, when we learned about, like, reframing and everything in the whole, the biggest thing is, you know, checking your assumptions, you know, and checking what you heard, you know, because, like you said, there’s always things getting lost in translation. And it also provides the person the opportunity to give clarification if you didn’t understand, right, you know what I mean? So it keeps the conversation moving in a productive way, which I remember like, and that’s something that my boyfriend and I now like, we really tried to be really intentional,
Like, I’ve also gotten better with, you know, because I remember he would say to me, like, Shaylah, this conversation will go so much smoother if you just tell me how you feel. And I’m like, I don’t know how I feel like I don’t even know. I don’t know how to articulate how I feel without coming off. Like the biggest biatch ever. It was, like, I needed to figure out, like, sift through the files in my brain of like, okay, how do I say this in a nice way? How do I say this in a nice way, like it takes it’s like, a delay almost thing for me, I have to really be intentional about what comes out of my mouth. And so it’s okay.
And I’ve gotten so much better saying, I don’t know exactly how to put into words how I’m feeling right now. I will let you know, as soon as I do. And I want to come back to this, you know it. And sometimes it only takes me a couple minutes. Sometimes, you know, I need to sleep on it. But we make sure we’re good, you know, and all that. But I remember we’ve gotten a lot better at that. Or, you know, I’ll say to him, if he’s saying something to me that I’m interpreting in a really crazy way that I’m like, Okay. This is what I heard that you’re bla bla bla bla bla. And He’ll either say, yes, you’re right, or no, I’m saying this, you know, and then I get clarification, and then I can like move forward in the conversation.
Brett Bartholomew 54:01
Yeah, I think that’s helpful, especially, you know, I hope what the audience is taking away from this is we live during a time where, whether it’s your relationships or in the workforce, you’re gonna have people from so many different generations and backgrounds working together. And when you’re trying to manage coach or lead them. We think that just because we might be able to label our emotions or how we feel that other people can do the same. And then because that’s not reality, because emotions are incredibly complex, somebody becomes quote, unquote, difficult, or somebody becomes a hard to understand or unhelpful, or like I got called when I was hospitalized, non compliant.
And it’s like, no, understand that sometimes people don’t have the language for what they’re saying, which is again, and I’m totally biased. I think we have to train for communication. I think it’s ridiculous that I don’t I try not to take many hard stances on pseudo political issues here because it’s just not the platform for it. But I think it’s ridiculous that more and more in schools not only is physical education out sex education out there’s no communication training. There’s nothing like on finance unless you’d like just basic stuff is so crazy to me. You know, my wife and I were even talking about this the other day in terms of the human body, you look at ancient Greek culture and Roman culture, bodies of males and females, I mean, these are things that are like, you know, these wonderful vessels
Now, you know, it’s you could, it’s amazing, like any hint of a body part. And it’s Oh, you must be this or you’re that or you’re a trollop, or you’re in. It’s like, Oh, my God, everything is so polarized. You know, one thing I wanted to say is, and it might be helpful, as I remember, I downloaded this app, and I’m looking at on my phone right now, maybe this will help. It’s called mood meter. And I can’t remember, and they don’t pay me to say this. I think it’s either Harvard or Stanford that came up with it. But for example, and I’m showing you this, even though the screens hard to see, it says, Hey, Brett, how are you right now? And there’s a button that says I feel so I click on it. And it’s like, it gives you four quadrants. High energy, pleasant, low energy, pleasant, low energy, unpleasant, high energy, unpleasant.
So let’s say I click on high energy, pleasant. Alright. And then it asked me to, like put it on this dimensional scale of saying, Okay, well, you know, tell us exactly how well you do it. It’s hard to explain over here, but I definitely recommend anybody listening, at least check it out. It’s an app, I’m pretty sure it was free, because I had read about an article called mood meter. And so in lieu of that, you knowing that you have a hard time expressing your emotions. Where are you with this now? Like, right now, if I asked you, how do you feel in the context of this conversation? Can you put words to that?
Shaylah Simpson 56:35
Yeah, I would say that I’m excited, because I feel like I want to talk to you like, for five hours, I’m inspired. I could say at the beginning, I was 100% nervous, I was like, had to do some breathing beforehand. But I feel so comfortable. And right now, you know, I’m so excited and inspired and all of that. So getting better. And you know, it’s funny, actually being with this law firm has helped me so much because they, you know, every Monday, we do like a team meeting. And most for the most part, it’s pretty much it’s a small team of like nine people.
And for the most part, we just do like check ins with each other. And I remember like the, it was like the third team meeting I was part of. And one of my bosses, he was just really open about how he was feeling just super heavy about the like, what was going on in the world at the time. And he was like, I just feel super low energy. Like, I this is like really like the state of the world is like really bringing me down and I just feel super bummed right now. And I was like, my boss just said he was like, sad. Like, it was like, the craziest thing. And then everyone else kind of it opened up the door for everyone else to be like, Yeah, you know, I’m like, really struggling with this too.
And he was never is never anyone like oversharing to the point of, you know, weird boundary. But like, it was just, it made me it was such a connector. And it made like I was so blown away by it and seeing how everyone else, it opened up the door for everyone else to kind of really feel safe expressing how they felt because he expressed how he felt and in a very open and vulnerable way. And so they’re really modeling for me, because I remember, I have a separate meeting with the partners of the firm.
And they were like, how are you feeling right now? You know, I mean, like, you know, I noticed you said, you, I saw you, I heard you in your check in said that. You were feeling a little overwhelmed. You know, like, what, what’s playing into that? And I just, like, remember feeling super nervous that they were asking me that, but also so glad. You know, I was like, wow, they give a shit. And, then they were able to clarify like, Hey, don’t worry about this, this and this. These are high priority. This is low priority. Like, just keep in contact with us about, you know, what your needs are. And I was just like, oh my god, this is something I’ve not seen before. It was really cool to see it modeled.
Brett Bartholomew 59:15
Well, this is what I want to do. I want to see because I know there’s gonna be listeners that definitely want to dive more deeply. So even though we can’t talk five hours on this podcast, we can definitely have you back for a part two. So guys, if you’re listening, make sure these are always in the show notes. Go to artofcoaching.com/podcastreflections. You’ll find downloads for every episode. But in Shaylah’s Download, we’re going to put together a nice easy little Google form. That’s just going to pull you if you want to hear more about this the context of relationships, your emotions, trying to figure out how to better understand them or those of other folks, because again, communication covers such a broad bandwidth of things.
And we’ll just put three or four questions in there so we can get to know what you want to hear more of. And again, that’s art of coaching.com forward slash podcast. As reflections, if you don’t fill it out, we’re going to assume that you guys don’t want to hear more on this. But I know for a fact, there are listeners who do because they’ve asked for this kind of episode for a long time.
Shaylah, in the meantime, until we do part two, where can people connect with you? And where can people reach out to you whether they’re going through kind of that identity crisis you mentioned, whether they’re an athlete or non athlete now still trying to figure out kind of their path if they’re in a relationship where they’re like, I need to make sense of my own mind. How can they best reach out to you while also respecting your boundaries?
Shaylah Simpson 1:00:33
Yeah, I mean, I would just say I don’t have you know, website or anything but I would just say reach out to me on Instagram and you know, have my profiles public and it’s just @Shay_Simps and I’d love to hear I like I said, like, My dream job would be just hearing everyone’s story. So anyone out there please tell me.
Brett Bartholomew 1:00:53
Yeah, and we’ll make sure that guys those are always in the show notes there. So make sure you use that Shayla, I can’t thank you enough for you always. You come on. It’s unscripted. It’s been at least five years, half a decade since we’ve actually talked face to face. You were such. You offered such great engagement and questions in the summit this weekend. I’m glad to know you and I’m looking forward to part two.
Shaylah Simpson 1:01:14
Yeah, thanks, Brett. I appreciate it.
Brett Bartholomew 1:01:16
Absolutely, guys, until next time, this is the art of coaching podcast Brett Bartholomew and Shaylah Simpson signing off.
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