In Art Of Coaching Podcast

On this show we don’t shy away from sensitive topics. We aim to bring you real, honest and important conversations.

Today’s episode is exactly that. Nate Hoffmeister is a father, husband, coach, and entrepreneur. But he’s also a divorced dad of two. And while this is a narrative shared by many, there are few who have been willing to publicly talk about their experience. Even if his story of divorce doesn’t speak to you directly, his vulnerability, candor and lessons learned will definitely reframe how you approach ALL relationships. 

Join our conversation as we discuss:

  • The stigma men face when asking for help 
  • What happens when you fail to practice what you preach…
  • Reframing divorce and the positives of heartbreak 
  • Counseling – is it for me?
  • Talking to kids about divorce 

Nate isn’t just a great storyteller and human being, he’s also the creator of an incredible community that supports and educates men who are navigating broken situations including the prison system and divorce. Click here to learn more!

Connect with Nate:

Via his website:

Via Instagram: @the.n.8

If you’re struggling with a difficult situation in your job or career, we’d also encourage you to check out our FREE webinar Unstuck or our online course, VALUED. Together, these resources will provide you with the tools you need to deal with burnout, provide more value, negotiate contracts, create a safety net, prepare for job transitions, and MORE!


Nate Hoffmeister  0:00  

I think we all wear many masks at different times. And I think our career is definitely one of those. And I think, you know, I think another reason why we hang on to it is as I was going through my divorce, you know, there’s tons of things that I thought, you know, obviously, I wasn’t good at that my fears, you know, fear of being less fear of not being good enough, all that and then all of a sudden, it’s like, Hey, I’m winning state championships, I’m doing this, you know, we’re fighting for world titles, yada, yada, yada. And it’s like, Well, hey, I’m good at this and this and this. So then I’m gonna stay in that lane of where I’m good at. It took me a long time to realize that all these things that I’m good at are really self absorbed things that I need to look outside of myself. And look at ways that I can contribute or grow that help other people. I think selfish tendencies are some of the things are one of the many things that led to another very successful or not successful marriage.


Brett Bartholomew  1:06  

Welcome to the Art of coaching podcast, a show aimed at getting to the core of what it takes to change attitudes, behaviors and outcomes in the weight room, boardroom classroom, and everywhere in between. I’m your host, Brett Bartholomew, I’m a performance coach, keynote speaker, and the author of the book conscious coaching. But most importantly, I’m a lifelong student interested in all aspects of human behavior and communication. I want to thank you for joining me. And now let’s dive into today’s episode.


If you can’t communicate, then you can’t compete at the highest level of what you do as a professional. Regardless of whether you’re trying to build trust, create change within your organization, or advance your career. The research makes it clear, effective communicators see faster and longer lasting success rates, and not only within their careers, but also within their marriages, and other forms of interpersonal relationships. So if you’re somebody, whether it’s your main struggle is getting your point across in a clear and convincing manner, building buy in with a certain audience, or simply being able to get in the minds of your staff, or other individuals that you collaborate with. So you can get everybody on the same page, it all boils down to how we communicate. And no matter what you’ve read in leadership books, guys, communication is not a singular act. It’s not something that can be read, learn by just reading the latest leadership book or by watching a presentation, you don’t become a master communicator, by watching an eloquent speaker any more than you learn how to master the violin, by observing an orchestra, communication skill, it’s got to be practice. Communication is a strategy, it’s got to be honed. Communication is a process, it has to be constantly evaluated. And if you want to improve at any of these things, then guys, we want to help we want to be a part of that journey, we want to be a part of really making sure that we maintain an honor the last thing art of conversation, and what the foundational premise of true leadership is communication. So go to, again, that’s And if you want to just improve your communication skills in general, as a husband or a wife, or the way you present online or the way you pitch a product or a service, or the way you get across to a challenging athlete or a colleague, we got you. We have helped people in the political space, whether it’s somebody running for mayor, we have people in the medical field telehealth based professionals and calls strength coaches, we have helped sales teams, I promise we’re not going to sit here and act like we have all the answers, but we do have strategies that are scientifically backed, and we can help you to it practically. 


All right now this ties in heavily with today’s episode. And I’m so glad you guys are tuning in because this is a topic that I think is shied over a lot. Nate Hoffmeister bring some incredibly vulnerable moments in today’s episode, and Nate is an athletic director and strength and conditioning coach who works with high school, college and professional athletes. He’s served in a role of education and helping men navigate broken relationships through the prison system, and divorce. He himself is a divorced father of two who has gone through varying stages of grief throughout his life. You know, the typical stigma, guys, you’re a leader, you want to do well in life. And then one day a relationship breaks down, and you look at yourself in the mirror and you start feeling like you’re a hypocrite. What do I do now? But the reality is, we all have failed relationships at some level. And it’s how we talk about these things, how we work through them, how we strategy, how we strategize, so that we don’t make the same mistakes in the future that matters. And I don’t know about you, but I’ve never once heard a podcast where a leader or really many people admit their relationship failures, and then how those led to being a springboard to being more effective in their personal and professional life going forward. So I hope you’ll appreciate everything that Nate shares, it takes incredible vulnerability. If you know somebody who’s struggling Like in a relationship or you’ve had a relationship struggles yourself, don’t get into that stigma. You’re gonna make some progress. We have some great content here. Please share it loudly and widely and enjoy this episode with Nathan Hoffmeister.


Nathan Hoffmeister, welcome to the show, buddy. 


Nate Hoffmeister  5:24  

How are you? 


Brett Bartholomew  5:25  

I’m doing well. How are you?


Nate Hoffmeister  5:27  

I’m great. Thanks for having me on today, bro.


Brett Bartholomew  5:29  

Hey, that is a very formal response by Nathan Hoffmeister. We’re gonna get you to loosen up a little bit. Yeah, I’m good, some idle small talk, I have had a problem this week of I’m slow, starting in the mornings, not like the groggy, tired, but like, I’m not as productive. You know, and that’s causing me some anxiety because it’s like, 10 in the morning. And there’s a million things I would have liked to have gotten done. But you know, I still haven’t accepted the fact that, you know, there’s going to be weeks like this. It’s such a transition from what I think a lot of us are used to, right. Like, I found that a lot of my productivity comes later at night. Now. Do you have any of that before? I mean, just


Nate Hoffmeister  6:09  

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, you got time change right now. So it’s just our weather here, where I’m at is changing from cold one day to 80 degrees the next day, so it kind of just screws you up that way. And the long days of work and kids and all life seems to tend to make my days longer as well. So I am more productive in the evening. But then that means the next day, I don’t have as much sleep. So it just kind of compounds itself over a week until can kind of get to the weekend. So yes, I definitely can resonate with you a lot. 


Brett Bartholomew  6:41  

It’s just it’s such a weird identity crisis. Because when you start out in coaching, you’re used to just getting up and by this time, you’ve run three, four or five groups, I think, you know, as I transitioned into coach and business owner and other things, especially during COVID, so much of my work now is creative, right? Like reading and disseminating research, presentations, this that communication, training, all the other things that we do that, you know, I’m still not used to like having clear outputs that are done by a certain time of day, sometimes you gotta wait, you know, when I’ve tried forcing certain things, let’s say we’re creating copy for a new course, or what have you. If I tried jumping the gun on it and forcing it, then I come back to it. I’m like, that was shit. And I think I just like rushed it too much. Because I wanted to get something done and be quote unquote, productive. But done isn’t good. Always, you know, done can be the opposite of perfect or progress. You know what I mean?


Nate Hoffmeister  7:35  

Yeah, I find my drives to work, which are now 45 minutes, to be my most productive times. But I’m with you, there’s times I’ve sat down to do certain things. And it don’t they always come at the most odd times when, for me, like I said, I was when I’m driving office, and I had to pull out my phone and go to my notepad. Because my mind is kind of wandering, it’s loose. It’s, kind of free thinking at the time. But those are the times I have some of the best ideas or come up with the things, the solutions I need. And then you’re trying to drive and write a message in your phone or talking into your phone. But then I’ll set a schedule, say nine o’clock this morning, I’m going to sit for 30 minutes. And write no nothing comes out blank piece of paper. 


Brett Bartholomew  8:14  

Yeah. 100%. And speaking of doing things, you’ve done a lot of things and I know you’ll downplay it, most of our guests do. But you know, you work at a Christian Academy. And you know, with that you went into that having 12 years experience working with high school student athletes, head coaches, state championship caliber programs, right? You also have this business side project in eighth, which I have always found super fascinating. Which if I’m correct, right, the whole goal of that is to encourage men, specifically who are really trying to kind of grow mentally, physically, spiritually. There’s a lot to unpack here. Well, first of all, like these divergent things, right, going and working at a massive Christian High School, competitive athletic landscape, but then there’s this personal development side now we know sport, and everything has this personal and professional, mutual kind of relationship. But can you talk to our audience a little bit about like, why these two things, what they are and a little bit more detail?


Nate Hoffmeister  9:12  

Yeah, so by trade, I am a athletic director slash strength coach and all that but it was about seven years ago, I went through a divorce and you know, there’s just not a lot of things out there for men when they go through divorce, everything’s kind of targeted towards women. So I always found myself to be what I considered rough around the edges covered by tattoos, which you would never know. But, you know, whole back piece I’ll just be so arms and all and I think those are stigmas that can attach to people even, you know, without people knowing them. So they’re not trying some UFC fighter so you know, you work with people who beat up people for a living so I just kind of have always fallen in the realm of just living a little bit on the edge and some of those From life experiences and so just there are avenues I’ve taken. But through that I was led to be able to work in a prison, where I get to minister and hang out with guys. So I’ve always just kind of found myself drawn to kind of the people that just have a label on him. And which then when I went through my divorce, it led me down to wanting to after about three or four years into the divorce, I just realized there wasn’t a lot of resources for men. So I thought, well, what better thing to do is then to try to connect with men, because everything seems to be like I said, towards single moms and those type of thing, I guess probably part of it is just the idea that the masculinity of that men don’t need help, that there’s no issues with me and that women are always the self care, self help type people, but sadly to say, I think men may need it more than women.


Brett Bartholomew  10:58  

Oh, without a doubt. I mean, I think there’s a lot there. But I’m reading you know, and I know I sent this to you earlier this week, I would have never thought when you know, when we started this podcast, the goal was to kind of create something for the everyman, and that that terms inclusive, every man, every woman, however everybody identifies. But the goal of this podcast was to take real people and talk about real issues within leadership and coaching that aren’t often talked about, right. And a lot of that came from like you said, you were trying to figure out a way to serve men with some of the things that you just feel like it was an underserved market. Well, I felt in the podcast community, there was no shortage of podcasts that had celebrities, right, you could learn from the Tim Ferriss, the Joe Rogan’s, the Matthew McConaughey, the Elon Musk, all these rich and famous and big name people. But there weren’t a lot of people that were just like, hey, you know, I’m in my field, I’m the guy doing it kind of from eight to five, or from five to eight, you know, sometimes, and, and I need help, and there’s value in those underserved communities, but never did I think about the fact that we would get so many people that reached out to us and requested an episode on how to deal with divorce, you know, but it makes sense, because coaches and leaders and real people go through it, I’m, you know, I grew up my parents were married for 22 years, they got a divorce. Now, they’re great friends now, but they were tremendously ugly moments, I understand what you mean about labels and stigmas. I was an eating disorder hospital throughout a year, for a year. But we had one guy that just asked us the other day, and he said, You know, I’m currently in the field of coaching, and I’m going through the process of divorce, you know, it’s hard to kind of, for me to figure out how to handle this, I go to work, and I try to coach my athletes and tell them about being leaders. But then I feel like I failed in my own marriage. You know, like, what would you say to people like that, that they look at me, there’s so many complex emotions with divorce. Talk a little bit more about what you experienced, or what this person may be experiencing? And where do you even start?


Nate Hoffmeister  12:53  

Wow, that’s a pretty loaded question there. I would say that, you know, I remember going through the same feeling. I mean, I think if you coach, if you’re an athlete, there’s that level of competitiveness that you don’t want to lose. And I think for me, I had that Outlook to that, even though that I knew my end outcome was going to be divorced. And I tried as hard as I could to just hang in there that hoping that it would change and that I could convince my spouse to not want that or that. But then at the end of the day, I had to realize that this was a game that I was going to lose. And it brought some peace in a weird way. And I think when you look at things like divorce, you gotta realize that 100% of the issues or problems are both people. It’s not just one person, even though it may seem that at one at the time, I had to accept responsibility for anything that I might have done, like lack of being at home, because I was coaching and all that. And of course, I had to realize that she had to accept responsibility for the things that she had done that led us to that point. And I think it just goes back if you want to relate it to coaching, you know, one thing, obviously, it may be as cliche that one thing doesn’t define you. And I think I eventually had a heart, I had to realize that this was not a defining moment in my career. It was a moment in my, in my journey, but it wasn’t the defining moment. And I’ve actually found peace and joy, doing the thing that I loved. And that was coaching. And I remember at the time, my athletic director, I was under at the time he had pulled me in his office, he said, Hey, man, do you need to take some time off? He’s like, No, I’m actually I feel like this is my safe place right now. This is where I feel the most comfortable because it’s doing something that I love that I know that I’m good at, even though I knew that my marriage was in the pooper, you know, I mean, it was just completely gone.


Brett Bartholomew  14:53  

But with that, and I want to talk about this. So I worked with somebody at one point in time. That work was there safe place to but the issue was, and you already alluded to it, you know, it was their safe place even before their divorce. And that kind of led to it, right we have people that get really passionate about a field, whatever that field is. And they work, work, work, work, work, and we get it, you know, you’ve got to do those things, I get it. But at some point, you know, I remember he had said, I realized that my safe place was really kind of like my escape from an unhealthy relationship that I basically had checked out of. And that’s kind of what I was wondering with you is, you know, where do people draw the line? Because we’re really good at justifying our own behavior? Or where do you draw the line between saying, Alright, I love my job, I’m gonna work my butt off at it. But then like, maybe is it a security blanket or safety blanket that’s really keeping you from going home and dealing with the things they’re, you know, did you ever feel like you went through any of that, you know, prior to the divorce during the divorce? Because I know, a lot of our listeners have said that they realized that they looked at what they thought was their hard work ethic. They were using it as kind of a crutch.


Nate Hoffmeister  16:07  

I would say that there was part of that I think mine was interesting, because I was a young coach, at the time trying to make a career. So I thought, me being at work all the time, was the answer to success. And I think eventually is exactly what you said, it’s it’s the, it’s the mask, you know, I read a book called scary close, and it talks about three circles. And in the first circle is the mask that you wear, that covers up the shame of something that is the inner you. So the third circle is the inner you. So you go the mask is the first circle, the second circle is shame, or whatever you’re going through. And then third is the the inner circle is that is your real, true self. And I remember after reading that, I wrote three circles, and I just started writing all my masks down, like what was I doing, to cover up my real true feeling. And that true feeling was the heart and the disappointment and the failure of divorce of who I really was. So I think we all wear many masks at different times. And I think our career is is definitely one of those. And I think, you know, I think another reason why we hang on to it is as I was going through my divorce, you know, there’s tons of things that I thought, you know, obviously, I wasn’t good at I was fear that my fears, you know, fear being less fear of not being good enough, all that and then all of a sudden, it’s like, Hey, I’m going to state championships, I’m doing this, I’m trying to, you know, we’re fighting for a world title, the yada yada and it’s like, Well, hey, I’m good at this, and this and this, so then I’m gonna stay in that lane of where I’m good at. But we all know, we tend to go to those things instead of it took me a long time to realize that all these things that I’m good at are really self absorbed things that I need to look outside of myself, and look at ways that I can contribute or grow that help other people. Because I think, you know, again, I think selfish tendencies are some of the things are one of the many things that led to a not a very successful or not successful marriage.


Brett Bartholomew  18:01  

I think you put that really well, I know there was a song I was listening to, I’d have to remember the title of it. And anybody that knows me knows I’m a huge hip hop fan and an Eminem fan. And one of the songs he has a chorus, I think it’s with the Imagine Dragons or the sing the chorus, but he talks about the fact that he was a good father, a great dad, but a bad husband. And I think that that is where you know, this dissonance can occur in our lives, sometimes we get really dedicated to a field of craft, you’re a good coach, right? Maybe a great coach, whoever’s listening, you’re an awesome leader, you’re really good at connecting with other people. But there’s a reason we have you know, they always say like families, the wildcard, you know, it’s kind of like, you can have the relationship coach, or I’m sure even the gurus out there, but then when they go home Thanksgiving dinner, still kind of a shit show. You know, like, family is just tough man, you know, and there’s some things where, and I’ve even found it, you know, in Liz and I are very open about this. I know, you know, my wife, and we did episode 100. We talked about these things, but I can go teach people how to communicate and coach in a wide variety of circumstances. But there’s times where I blow up, you know, and there’s times where we lose our cool with each other. And here’s the thing and and I’d love to know, your take, should that make you feel guilt and like you’re an imposter? Or should that remind you that you’re a real person and that, you know, they’re like, Here’s the way I look at it, there’s a strength in that, you know, because if I’m out there telling people how to communicate during hard times, but I like never lose my cooler, put myself in those hard times or what have you. It’s kind of like I’m detached from it. You know, I think there’s something real about saying, hey, like we are you we do this, I lose my cool. I have issues with customer service people. The difference is is that I’m self aware and work through a process with it, whereas other people are just quick to blame that that person or that event, not even thinking about themselves. What do you think it should there be guilt associated with that?


Nate Hoffmeister  19:49  

I don’t think so. I think it does. I think it makes you know, I’m a believer that. I mean any type of motion makes you realize that you’re a human being and it may no matter or if it’s an anger or, you know, any of those type of motions, I think that’s just, it kind of checks us back into reality to realize that we have to still continue to evolve and work on ourselves as well. And that none of us are perfect. Because as soon as we blow up, you know, we’re expecting grace in some type of just, quote unquote, forgiveness of that happening. But we’re also very quick to do it, when it’s on the other shoes on the other foot. So I definitely think that just, if you can recognize the triggers of those things, then it makes you realize that you’re in tune with yourself in the present moment. And I think that’s key, especially when you look at marriage and you look at relationships, it’s being in the moment, you know, and that’s one of the things like with my kids now, and those type of issues. It’s all about being intentional with my time, because it’s limited at this point. And I think before my divorce, I may not have been as self aware about those things. Because you’d kind of take it for granted. So I’d tell anybody, if you’re preaching one thing, and you happen to mess up and do it yourself, and  that’s just the reality of being a human being.


Brett Bartholomew  21:14  

Now, how old were you when you got a divorce?


Nate Hoffmeister  21:17  

I was 29. So I remember it. I was four days. So I got divorced two days after my fourth wedding anniversary. So I got married on the seventh to get divorced on the night. I remember I flew out on that Saturday because we had a fight and then that next Monday, I turned 30. So it was all a big week of trying to celebrate a wedding anniversary get divorced, go fight then have a birthday. So yeah, 30 years old.


Brett Bartholomew  21:42  

And with that, you know, and everybody’s situation is different. I know when I’m curious, did you guys go to counseling did you try to work it out just internally with one another? What was that process like?


Nate Hoffmeister  21:54  

We did several things we separated and then we got back together we bought a house we adopted a child in the process,


Brett Bartholomew  22:02  

why you were counseling separation and divorce you adopted a child,


Nate Hoffmeister  22:06  

we were actually we had separated and got back together. And that was one of my ex wife’s biggest thing she always wanted to do and, the opportunity came about and we got back together and we’re working on marriage, we’re going to counseling we adopted a child or started fostering a child. And then as soon as I got done fostering we adopted and then boom, we got divorced shortly after. So we I would say I ran the gamut of things of trying to save my marriage from one extent to maybe an off the wall extent, but I think it was all part of the plan. And I wouldn’t trade any of it. They were some good learning experiences. And but yeah, but the thing with counseling, you know, we did, but if both people aren’t willing to put into play, the things that come out of it, or the help that then it’s just wasted time. And, you know, I was after that I hated counseling, I did not want to go to counseling. And then about six years after I got divorced, I realized that as much as I thought I could solve my own issues, and be able to get me out of every funk or every failed relationship since then, I realized I couldn’t have finally found after probably going to six or seven, I finally found a gentleman that and I spent every week with him. I went once a week for nine months. And it was literally one of the best things ever did for myself


Brett Bartholomew  23:24  

in what way particular


Nate Hoffmeister  23:26  

 I mean, it was really just a big self examination of my own flaws, my own crap my own issues and wasn’t able to escape it after a while to realize that you know, you got a lot of shit on yourself. And here’s your tendencies and here’s why you’re the have those tendencies. So yeah, as much as you want to think it’s everybody else. Some of it is just you


Brett Bartholomew  23:50  

when I’m curious because it’s so uncanny man I mean, I know the audience can’t see it but you’re you know, a bigger guy athletic by all means a brick shithouse you know, you’re well groomed, right? You look like the dude that any woman in this world would want to marry and you know just well principles and what have you and again, you have that blue collar background of being a strength and conditioning coach, right which like that’s ingrained and it’s inveterate, you know, honest, humble, hardworking these things. I’m curious what shit Did you find, you know, to use your terms. I know there’s some people that get mad. There’s some people. There’s somebody on Twitter the other day, it’s like, I hate when podcasts use cuss words. But you know, hopefully, people people that have listened to this episode, or this podcast know what they’re getting. We’re just talking real stuff, guys. Nobody’s trying to be edgy. Nobody’s trying to be tough. I mean, we all know that we use these words, but what things did you want or that kind of Crack the veil a little bit?


Nate Hoffmeister  24:42  

I’ll tell you one of the biggest ones was like an attachment disorder as soon as I got close to somebody, because my two biggest fears was the fear of not being good enough and the fear of being left that I would automatically pull away and then just go jump ship or go to try to find out The relationship or talk to somebody else here that instead of, I guess I just didn’t want, I was afraid of people seeing who I really was, in liking me for who I really was. So yeah, that was one of the biggest things that I had to realize is like, Hey, this is the reason why you continue to have failed relationships after marriage is because you’re really in your own way here on what you’re doing. So I would say that was one of my big, the other thing was just always having to seek having validation of some sort. And I think that comes with coaching. And it comes with athletes of always having an end game there or a price. And when you didn’t get the prize, and you were trying to figure out some other thing you could do to receive a prize and all those are can turn into vices, they can turn into all these different things that we kind of used to. But it always ended up being a black hole of endless pursuit of nothing, to be honest. And I finally just had to take some time to just be frustrated and sit my own crap for a while and realize that hey, you know, not everybody’s perfect. I think in my mind, I was after my divorce, I wanted to find the perfect human being, I wanted to find that woman that was just perfect in every way and realize that as I’m sitting here eating myself, I’m like, Oh, crap, I’m the furthest from perfect on everything, but I expect her to be. So my expectations were high. And so I just had to really just kind of ground myself in all that, and realize that, you know, these things that you really want, aren’t attainable?


Brett Bartholomew  26:38  

Yeah. So no, go ahead.


Nate Hoffmeister  26:41  

So, you know, I just, I had to face reality that somebody could leave me again, and that I may not be good at something. But that was okay. And as I was able to just kind of realize that about myself, I guess I kind of started liking myself a little bit more, it was just really kind of weird. I mean, I’m sure you’ve probably gone through this as well is that is from the outside the appearance looks like. I mean, you gave me a lot of competence, and you’re very successful. And all that is well. But internally, then you could be like the most insecure person in the world. And no one would ever know.


Brett Bartholomew  27:15  

Oh, I think we see it a lot in you know, I’ve talked about a lot of these episodes. But for anybody that’s new listening, I’ve talked a lot about just in the origins of my career strengthen conditioning, I think it’s one of the most insecure, unhappy fields there is. And it’s a special field, there are people that will listen to that, and they’ll go nuts, you know, because they’re not picking up on the context. And I’m saying, but in the world of performance, we see this a lot is people attach themselves to higher profile jobs, they want to work with pro athletes, they want to do this. And they’ll talk about, you know, they want to be the servant leader in these things, all they want. And really, a lot of people just want the label of being able to work for the Dallas Cowboys, or, you know, a premier club overseas or, you know, they want these labels, they want to be a division one strength cut, and I wanted them to, you know, I grew up in Nebraska watch Nebraska football, I wanted to do that I didn’t even know that was a job. And then I got into it, you know, did internships worked with pro athletes isn’t that, but you start realizing that, you know, I think the wake up call for me was just looking around at some micro mentors I had, and seeing that, you know, their whole life revolved around that thing. And I never had met a strength coach that was happily married, financially secure, and also had like a life outside of that, like, you’d see their identity and everything had to be strength and conditioning. You know, all they posted about was training and lifting weights. And then, you know, it was like, very rarely did you see pictures with their family. And if you did, it was kind of that honorary? Oh, it’s the holidays post or something that almost like a political thing. Like, here’s me with my wife and kids, right. But then it just became so unilateral. And the irony is they were really married to their career. And I had saw that myself too, right?


Like, I think I was 27 ish, or maybe a little younger when my wife and I met and we met I mean, she was an intern, right? And she was in strengthing conditioning and what have you, and because it gets really hard to meet people, when you’re in any career, that requires so much of your time, when you’re in a career where you know, so much of it is predicated on you being there and you grinding and you’ve been able to do these things, but then your work isn’t highly visible, that becomes tough, and you just get in this rabbit hole of you don’t meet new people. So that makes relationships tough. You feel like if you do start having a life outside of work, you’re gonna miss some new research or you’re gonna get behind on something. And it’s a lot of anxiety and that’s led to a field too that has been desperately searching for more and more avenues of credibility for a long time. You know, there’s one camp that is always like, well, we need more certifications and licensures and we need a board and then you know, they want next thing they want more tech and then they want bigger weight rooms and then I just have always looked at it as a field that just wants to fill voids and wants to fill voids and you’ve got to get to a point where you look at the wake up call, and you’re like, has my job become my identity? And at what costs, you know, at what cost and my wife and I had to consider that even when she quit her job, when we went out on our own, you know, and I’ll be very real. You know, a year ago, I made the decision that I was no longer gonna coach athletes year round, we started doing more and more work with military corporations, what have you on the communication and leadership side, and I said, this is a very interesting avenue that I want to pursue. But Nate, I was scared shitless that the minute I quit posting just strength and conditioning stuff and stuff, showing Brett as I started, that people would be like, how do you know he’s not a coach anymore? He’s not a coach. And then I just realized, like, what the hell would I first of all, why would I want to do the same thing the same way, decade after decade? Whose definition of success is that, like, I have other interests. Yes, I like human performance. But I also like communication, social psychology, behavior, and leadership. And so now I don’t have those things like I could care less. You know, I’ve lost followers and listeners and stuff, because I’m not talking about speed and agility, and of those, but you know, what I’ve learned, and I’d be interested to hear if you learn the same thing. I’ve also gained tons of new friends and acquaintances in a wide variety of different fields. You know, like Steven Pok, one of our former guests, worked for Facebook worked for Amazon, that, you know, we’ve cultivated a friendship that’s been invaluable. I have friends in international business, and I’m learning so many things from these new friends who know that it’s not about isolating yourself in one thing. And guess what, we talked about the same things with our marriage, you can’t isolate yourself in this. So I don’t know if that answered your question. But yes, I’ve had those identity struggles, I see it in our field, I think it’s toxic, I get really scared that more coaches don’t wake up and recognize it. And I’m almost curious as to what you think could be done to help these kinds of individuals wake up and realize you’re on this path if they are?


Nate Hoffmeister  31:57  

Well, I think, as you’ve alluded to many times, just the I think, with the pursuit of strengthing, auditioning is trying to get those big jobs and all that as to where we think the paychecks gonna be. But obviously, when you get some of those jobs, your time commitment is a lot more as well. So therefore, you got to look at money in time, is it really worth that? So I think in order to change that, you know, the field has to change a little bit on just how I mean, more and more things are coming out about the grind, and all that stuff, you know about how it really, I mean, what does that really mean, if we spend 10 hours in the weight room a day, is that really gonna accomplish a more successful season for us. So I think, you know, I look at strength and conditioning is just a small component of the overall athletic development process with our athletes, so I can have a great guy and a kid in the weight room. But if their skill sucks on the field, that’s still not gonna, I mean, the weight room is only going to do so much for that athlete. So I think just getting coaches to understand that, you know, more time or all that is not necessarily what every athlete needs. Athletes in, I think, just need more than anything to be loved on. In some ways, if we showed more value to them as people and not so much about the weights, then you wonder how much better teams could possibly be. Therefore, if you’re not spending as much time in the weight Room, then you’re able to do other things, like you’re just talking about, you’re able to have more friend groups, and you know, I quit going to conferences, for the really the same reason I got tired of listening to the same stuff from I got want, I like to meet new people. I mean, I like to just go find new circles of friends and just, you know, learn about things. And I think that’s one of the things about strength conditioning is that we’re stuck and just learning. And obviously, it’s a lot about what you do, right? We’re stuck in learning about the X’s and O’s of the weight room, instead of all the other things that make life go around.


Brett Bartholomew  33:49  

And I think the scary thing with that, because this is every field, what strength coaches deal with, and we talked about this year is no different than any other profession. Every we’re just learning it really late. And for some reason, we’re very behind. Everybody knows, hey, the more time you spend in meetings, in the corporate realm, more meetings doesn’t mean more results, right? The more time you spend in all these kinds of things, no matter what your job is, there’s nonlinear kind of advantages and disadvantages of these things in some very linear and direct, it comes down to a lot of people trying to prove their value, you know, because I get it, it is hard, and people would have the right to criticize and say, Hey, I hear all these people say it’s not about X’s and O’s, regardless of what you do. But when you have a head coach breathing down your neck or superior breathing down your neck or a corporate partner breathing down your neck or what have you, they want to see certain things right. And for them, correlation is causation. You know, I have a friend that hadn’t seen his kid in about six weeks. And he’s got a little two year old because the head coach wants him to stay later so that they can talk about travel schedules and practice design and what have you and I said to him, I’ll make up the name. I said, Clark, you know, but here’s my question. Let’s say I’m a head coach, or I’m a superior Knight. I run a staff of five people, you know, part time timers, full timers, what have you. But if I’m like that, and they’re done at three, because this coach was done at three, but he had to stay at the facility, oftentimes they’ll seven or eight, what I would say is, hey, go ahead and go home, but be by your phone around seven or eight just so we can talk about practice design and scheduling, you know what I mean. And I think we’re not taking enough cues from how we are going to lead people remotely right now, none of my staff has set hours, right, what they do have is some expectations of hey, you know, when these times of year you got to be available, and that may even be you know, my associate, Jordan knows, I may give her a call on the weekend. Now I have, we have some boundaries, I’m not going to call her in the evening on a weekend unless there’s something going on there. But we gave a virtual presentation how to talk to her on the weekend. But I just think that there’s so many people that feel like, well, if I’m gonna show value, I have to do these things. So all your talk about relationships and loving on the athlete or subordinates or those we serve is great. But that’s not what my boss wants to see, my boss wants to see my ass in the chair, they’re available 24/7, I would think my argument to that is, okay, there’s a way to do that. But you can still maximize your relationship at home. What I think is the issue is when these coaches or individuals do go home, their asked is still in that seat. You know what I mean? they’re there so long, they don’t know how to turn it off. They can’t turn off work mode, Coach mode, you, Gabby reset it well. And I apologize if this is too racy for our listeners. But when I was on her podcast, she said we don’t talk about the kids or work when we’re naked. And I thought what a great heuristic, and she’s talking about her and her husband, BIG WAVE SURFER, LAIRD HAMILTON, prodigious guy, they’re both prodigious. But when they’re naked, there’s no talk of work or kids. I’m wondering, now that you’re in another relationship. Do you have heuristics now that you follow that? You know, is it a once I’m home? Or once I’m in the car? This is off? Are you better about date nights? what are you better about now in your second marriage? That you weren’t then like, what are some things other coaches can learn from intake from?


Nate Hoffmeister  37:09  

Well, I think, you know, my very first thing I would say is that more and I spoke about or intentional in my time. So when I went through my divorce I had, I got 50% custody of my kids, when I was married, and I was in the grind and trying to be strong. You know, we started out, like exactly what you just said, I’d come home and I’d still work, I would, you know, help with the kids put them to bed, Yatta Yatta, yatta. And then when that was taken away with me having them every day, then it became certain days of the week that it was only me, so I was forced to put my phone down and to put my laptop up, and to not read this or that, because I knew tomorrow, they were going back. So it made me realize that the time I have is precious, and now my kids are eight, I had one that turned eight, eight, yesterday and one’s 10 they’re already starting to be many teenagers. So my time is already starting to be limited with them. So the very first thing I would encourage or say that I’ve learned is just the intentional pneus of my time. The second thing I think would be to tend my flock and my flock is my house. And I’ve been able to do more with you know, enjoying the family time to enjoy going out to the park and those type of things you asked, Is there anything new in my new marriage that different? The second, it would datenights Yes, I think I am more aware of the other person than I was of myself the first time or was the first time you know, the first time around? It was all about me. And again, I think I said that just a little bit ago about trying to get to the next level and being successful. But you know, when I get home, if she’s helped pick up the kids, whatever, you know, it’s, it’s What can I do? It’s just being I guess all of that comes down to the intent of your actions and what you really want. And I just realized that the first like, it was such a painful experience. I think anybody’s gone through it. It’s never enjoyable, that I never wanted that to happen again. So what are ways that I can fix that to where it doesn’t, and a lot of it is just being able to give my be present, be present where I’m at be where you’re at, you know, I know, I’m sure we’ve heard that to other places. 


Brett Bartholomew  39:17  

Yeah, it’s hard, man. It’s hard, you know,


Nate Hoffmeister  39:22  

especially when you’re a leader or you’re you’re administrating other people. But for me, my drive home is 45 minutes and I get to disconnect then I put my phone down. A lot of times I don’t even listen to music or anything. I literally just drive it straight interstate. So it’s literally autopilot. And then by the time I’m home I’ve already had that time to decompress a little bit. So it was a walk in the door. I’m able to be Dad I’m able to be a husband I’m able to be fun loving and not have any care that I had at work that day it’s gone. Or it’s put on the back because I’ve had time to process it. I’ve had time to try had forgot the solution and realized, Hey, this is not something that I’m going to fix tonight, or I need to fix tonight. I can deal with it tomorrow. So we I’ve just tried to be a better use of time when I’m with my family.


Brett Bartholomew  40:15  

No, I think that’s clear. here’s something I firmly believe. And I think for some people to get this there, they have to go through it. And this is what I mean, and remind me, in case we forget, because you and I could talk for a long time, I want to know how you walk your kids through this whole process, because I know what it’s like for me growing up with divorced parents. So I want to come back to that. But you mentioned the date night, and my wife wouldn’t mind me telling this we give each other a hard time. Liz is awful at the whole date night thing, like you know, you would almost think that I’m the romantic in the relationship now. But here’s the thing, and this is why I say people have to go through it. I’m only more serious about date night stuff. And we’re still not as good as we should be. Because I had a failed relationship. Now, I wouldn’t married what have you. But when I was in grad school, and I was a grad assistant strength coach at Southern Illinois, right, so I was getting my master’s, I was an assistant for basketball and football and the head for baseball, men’s and women’s swimming, diving, tennis, yada, yada yada, like four or five other sports. I was in a relationship with somebody. And this was somebody I cared a lot about. And she lived about an hour away from Carbondale, where Southern Illinois was. And this was very much like what you said, this is during a time where you know, I’m just I’m out of college, I’ve done to six months unpaid internships, I got a competitive grad assistantship, this is my time to hone my craft, and set myself up for a future job. Right. And, but we also had this issue where you had to be in the weight room, generally by five, to have everything set up by 5 30. To be ready for the first lift or run at six. Well, my girlfriend at the time had a very she was already in her career, she had been in her career for a number of years, she was probably making 50 60,000, I was making 10, you know, and it wasn’t fair for me to ask her to stay at my place the entire time. But at the same time, when I stayed at her place, it was an hour away, I’d have to wake up at 3v30 in the morning, to drive in the dark on back country, Southern Illinois roads, to get to work by 4 30 in the morning, to be able to set up and this stuff just wore on you, you know, wore on you, and then on weekends, you know, and she’d want to do stuff and, she had money, we’re both in our 20s. On the weekend, you won’t have weekends, you know, and it’s already tough because we’re in Southern Illinois. But on the weekends, I had to work game day, you know, and at the time, you’re like, God, it’s so exciting. I love game day, because you’re still early in your career. But then you have this relationship, and you just start feeling yourself get farther apart. And even when I was like when we were together, we’d maximize it. We tried to do everything we can. But you know, there’s only so much you can do that when you’re working a five to like 6 30 or seven schedule, and then half your weekends you don’t even get to spend with them. And it eventually led to, you know, a pretty, you know, tremendous and hard breakup at that time. What felt like a divorce at that time. You know, and I’m not, you know, trying to cross those boundaries. There’s nothing that compares a divorce in a relationship. But everybody knows their first truly serious relationship when that breaks apart. That’s catastrophic, right? Because then you’re just you’re trying to fix it. I mean, man, we were thinking about going through counseling at that time. And I just remember there were so many things that I learned from that there was such an emptiness you feel that I didn’t want to repeat those mistakes when I got with Liz. So but what was tough is Liz had not been through that yet. Liz hadn’t been through a relationship. No, she’s had her own hard relationships. But she hadn’t been through something quite as you know, Love the Way You Lie-esque there’s no physical and violence, right? But I’m just saying like, there was no dramatic kind of thing. So I’m trying to tell her like, hey, we need to do date night. And Liz is you know, she’s dedicated, she’s independent. She’s like, well, you know, yeah, we’ll do this. And I’m like, no, like, we need to do this. And I’m like, Ah, woman, I’m trying to tell you, like, I know where this goes, if we don’t do these things, please. And we’ve gotten better at it now. But you know, I just think people have to go through those things, man because you learn that lesson once


Nate Hoffmeister  44:20  

I call  the pit diet. So because you get the pit in the bottom of your stomach where you don’t want to eat. If I could ever figure out a way to market that and be able to distribute you can lose a lot of weight pretty quick on those but in so you know exactly what I’m talking about the I don’t know what it happened and why. I mean, I know why that’s it. But you know, you just yeah, if you don’t go through that you really I think you’re right. I think you all have to you have one you know one of the things you’re talking about date night one of the things my wife do now is I’m a huge Atticus poet. I like his poetry is pretty simple. Obviously. If you saw me, you would think that I wouldn’t be this but I Atticus.


Brett Bartholomew  44:57  

Explain this for our audience. And me too. there’s Atticus poetry.


Nate Hoffmeister  45:03  

Yeah, so there’s, a guy on social media, his name’s Atticus AT T I C U S and he just writes short poems. And most of them, they’re about love. And I’m a sappy guy, I like to play on the dates and to do things like that. So, I’ve always loved his poetry, because a lot of it’s just raw emotion. And I think you can, and I’m a big lyrics guy just like you and words. And I think we all resonate in those because at some point in time, it’s helped us through something, but I bought the book, so I’ll just write, I’ll put a little card in on one that I think reminds me of her, and I’ll put it on the counter. Well, we started doing that, and we started switching it back and forth. So every periodically, you know, I’ll find the book on the counter, or she’ll find the book on the counter. And it’s just like a little way to just let them know that you’re thinking I’m in and I know, it sounds kind of corny, you know, but these are things that I didn’t do the first time, you know, and it’s continuously a way for me to show her that I care about her that I’m thinking about her. But you’re right, you know, the first time around, and I was so absorbed in myself, that I didn’t really think much of my partner’s needs.


Brett Bartholomew  46:02  

Yeah, and I think one thing that helped me when I was going through that is because I want I think it’s important that people don’t feel shame about these things. Again, I have some friends that they’re happier in their second marriage. And, you know, obviously, you’re like that there’s growth that occurs there. But there’s some people that feel like if they get divorced, that they’re a quitter. And I know, my mother struggled with this, she grew up, and she was raised by her mother, like, if you ever get a divorce, you know, basically, you’re a failure, you know, and that was in not so strong of words, but definitely strong intention. And so my mom dealt with this just identity crisis, and the shame and all that. And I remember one time reading, you know, somebody saying, you know, Divorce isn’t the tragedy, of course, divorce is awful we hope nobody has to go through those things, what have you, but it is a reality of life. But they said the real tragedy is staying in an unhappy marriage, and thinking that you’re just gonna get it right. You know, there are some people that they get married, and they don’t have enough grace to realize we don’t always get it right, you can make good decisions that have a bad outcome, unfortunately. And, an example of that is like, you know, we know that if you’re going to drive or fly across country, flying is safer, right? Statistically, Flying Cross Country is safer. Yet, of course, unfortunately, there are people that choose to fly and a plane crashes, you know, you made a good decision. But there’s a bad outcome. And they talk a lot about that in the book, super forecasting. And I know Annie Dukes is a popular person people are reading right now and Anna Konnikova, and what have you, they talk about these things. But I do believe the tragedy is staying in an unhappy marriage or relationship. And that’s going to teach your kids the wrong thing about love. You know, and I remember coming home, and you know, when even when my mom was in her second marriage, you know, again, nothing’s perfect. And I’d come home and I’d see them kind of arguing back and forth, because people change or what have you. And you’re just like you, all you have the end of the day you want is you want to be happy, you want other people to be happy, or if you’re a kid you want your parents to be happy. But I don’t think it’s talked about enough when it comes to the shame thing. I personally, you know, yes, you should do everything you can to honor your commitments in a relationship. But if it’s toxic, and it’s taking, it’s showing the worst of you, and it’s becoming a chronic thing, I’m sorry, I just don’t think staying in this thing. And there’s no timeframe, right? Like, of course, people shouldn’t expect like, oh, it’s been hard for a few weeks. Okay, buck up. But if we’re talking when I say chronic, we’re talking about years and along, and there’s toxic things, and there’s hate language being used or physical violence, like you gotta know, there’s nothing honorable about staying in a toxic relationship, you know, at least my opinion, what are your thoughts around that?


Nate Hoffmeister  48:45  

No, I completely agree. That, you know, it kind of goes back to a thought that I tried to use a lot now is do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy? If you want to be right? Then you’ll be right, you’ll battle nonstop, you will, you know, you’ll bicker or do you want to be happy in then then the whole landscape just changes. So I’ve tried to remind myself of that a lot in my new marriage. And it was something that obviously I didn’t do very well, or we didn’t do very well, in my first one, because I think we always just wanted to be right. But when it comes down to like your kids and those type of things, the environment that you can foster them in is huge. Because is it’s just like coaching and it’s like teaching and it’s like, marriage, you model what you see. So if you’ve seen your parents have a healthy relationship or in this and that then you’re I think you’re tend to have more success. if you’ve watched your parents get divorced multiple times and just kind of go from person to person that way, then you think that’s just normal. It’s like parenting, you know, I mean, if you are a disciplinarian with spanking, then you’re gonna spank your kids. And if you’re one of those soft spoken ones that just thinks that you know, you can just talk them off the ledge and you’re going to try so you Just you use what you know. And then you kind of adapt that to what your own style and what you think is working or not. So I was that same person, I stayed in relationships and still did, even after my marriage because I didn’t want to see it fail I even though it was toxic, like I knew is toxic. Even my counselor told me it was toxic. But what does he know? I didn’t want to listen to him, you know, because I wanted this to make it to the end outcome. And I think it was eventually is he’s like, do you really care about this person? Or do you just want to win? And I remember being like, I just want to win. And I was like, Oh, well, that’s probably the best reason to stay in this relationship. So yeah, 


Brett Bartholomew  50:38  

that seems really weird. You know, I feel like most people would just feel like, It’s shame. It’s guilt. I’m not the leader that I thought it would be appearances, you know, things like that. I wouldn’t have thought somebody wanting to I mean, I get it. And I get that those things exist. It’s crazy to think that way. You know what I mean? I think that people have to just get over the fact that like, you know, unfortunately, it’s a reality, you got to do what you can, I think that the communication with kids thing is interesting. And there’s some research that suggests, you know, kids going through divorce, that enhances resilience, right? Because just real life comes at you quick, and we are little guys, you know, my brother and I were and, you know, they talked about how, you know, kids talk about communication, which is everything, we’re about it art of coaching, I know you value tremendously as well, you know, you’ve got to have the research at least suggests that like these kids have to they have to make meaning of these things. Otherwise, they start assuming because they hear things from their friends at school and what have you. And you know, what’s appropriate communication and adequate communication around that definitely depends on that, you know, somebody else’s, like those family dynamics, I don’t think any one person can say that. But you know, when you consider that a divorce happens, and there’s this like absence, whether temporary or more chronic, of a noncustodial parent, those dynamics change, and then kids are going to start to make their own storylines. If you don’t figure that out. I mean, my parents did joint custody. So I was with my dad, Tuesday, Thursday, my mom, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and weekends would switch off, man. So I got pretty comfortable. I mean, it sucked at first, but I remember we went to Target or somewhere and we had to pick out a duffel bag. And that duffel bag is like you talked about your fear of like, your like the attachment stuff. I remember for me, I just I would stuffed this duffel bag filled with everything because I’m like, alright, what am I going to need? Like, I’m going to dad’s house and that might only be a few miles away. And for a while he was staying at like this Hawthorn suites place or whatever, you know, and but you’d pack everything. And that gives me trouble packing now because I’m gonna like OCD. Like, what if I need this, but it also led me to like, do something as I’ve gotten older, I’m more prepared, because when you’re younger, you have to deal with the circumstances of okay, I didn’t bring my favorite toy, or I forgot my friggin homework or my notebook. And so you had to be more methodical about remembering ship. You know, you just did, because otherwise, if now I’m at my dad’s during the weekend, and my mom has plans, it doesn’t mean I couldn’t go get it. But you didn’t want to force that awkward interaction, because I’m like, I don’t know. Like, I don’t want my I couldn’t drive. So I wasn’t gonna like have my dad take me to my mom’s? Because it’s just weird that I gotta call my you know, how did you talk to your kids about this? Or at the time? Was it just the one adopted child?


Nate Hoffmeister  53:22  

So no, I, at the time of my divorce, my oldest was three and my, the one I adopted was, was right around one. So they didn’t really quite understand. And I guess probably they just have realized that life is separate. And it’s always been between me and their mother. But I’ll tell you, one of the things that was more of a nonverbal thing was that I kept my house, the house that we had moved into and bought, because they each had a bedroom. And when we divorced my ex wife, she moved about three or four times, and I wanted my kids to have something that was solid, that they knew that no matter what happened between me and their mother, that they were going to have a bedroom at my house that it wasn’t changing. And it’s still their same rooms to this day. And I mean, that was probably one of the hardest things because I took on the full mortgage. And I know my ex wife’s income went away, but I was bound and determined to say, look, you’re gonna have a home, no matter what happens. It’s your mom’s house, your home is home here, you can feel safe knowing that nothing is changing. And I think that was key because they came back to the same place with their same stuff. Yeah, every single time. And they may not have realized it and it may not be that big of a deal. But again, I thought that would lead to if I’m ever again examining myself if I knew I had attachment disorders with things. What am I creating in my kids by having them change all the time? Are they going to have a fear of never wanting to feel secure in one spot or feeling secure with one person? And that was one thing that I tried my hardest and I think, you know, pretty successful to some degree. that they knew that home was home when it came to dad’s house.


Brett Bartholomew  55:05  

And I liked that man, I think that’s important that to have, like you said, this symbolic piece here. And however people decide to do that, because there’s so much change going on. And it’s just something that I know you know, really well. I’d love to particularly on your website, how use the Van Gogh quote, you know, the heart of a man is very much like the sea, it has it storms, its tides, its depths, but it’s pearls too. And I think that speaks to the fact that like, we oftentimes just shovel or like push down our darkness and the Tempest and everything we deal with thinking that like that darkness is bad. But like, that’s exactly what we need in order to get to any kind of new reality, right? This new bless this new future. Nate listen, I want to give people every opportunity. I really think this is going to be one of our most valuable episodes. I think that again, these just aren’t things that people talk about, you know, they’re not man and for you to come on. And I know there’s so much more you could share. But I want people have the opportunity to reach out and learn from you direct. Where’s the best way if somebody is listening to this, and they’re like, Man, I am going through this, this resonates? I’m feeling shame, guilt, pressure, anger, hostility, hopelessness, any of these things, any of these constellation of traits, or feelings or emotions? How can they get in touch with you? And where can they learn more?


Nate Hoffmeister  56:25  

I have a website, it’s it’s www.N the letter dash eight, the word E , G, H That’s And then I have my social media, which is the letter N number eight. So I took the innate one, if you say real fast, it says Nate, which is my name, but then the innate abilities that we have, within scientists, we all possess all of the skills that we need to cope with these things, you just have to figure out how to tap into them. So that’s where the name came from. And so those would probably be the two best places to find resources for me. Or if you know, anybody wants to chat to talk or for me to share my experience to maybe help them out with


Brett Bartholomew  57:11  

Yeah, guys. And again, I encourage you to look at the show notes, like you said, it’s N as in Nancy hyphen, and then the spelling of the number eight e IG H T dotnet. And it’s always in the show notes. Our ally Kershner does an amazing job with those. And in the same thing for the podcast reflections. And if there was ever an episode, you guys do these podcasts, reflections, were what you’re absolutely free. It needs to be this one. And you can always find that at


Brett Bartholomew  57:39  

Nate. I know this stuff is super personal man. And this is not easy stuff to talk about. You know, sometimes we have people on this show that they’re 100% well intentioned, they’re amazing people. But when things get personal, and you know, they have to start sharing some things that kind of open up some scars, they can tend to clam up, right, because it’s natural, we start worrying about how people might judge us or what have you, I thank you for not doing that in the least I think that you’re going to be massively surprised by how many people reach out to you. We all have relationship issues. And I think that the more leaders kind of act like they don’t, I really think that takes them to an unhealthy place. You know, we need to have more talks about divorce, we need to have more talks about sexual relationships in our marriage and our relationships, and money and, you know, self doubt and all these things not so everybody can come together and Kumbaya. But so people feel like they can actually connect with others that are dealing with this before it becomes this Festering Wound that just cannibalizes you from the inside. So thank you so much for not dodging the hard stuff, man.


Nate Hoffmeister  58:43  

Well, I appreciate it. You know, I think, you know, lastly, before we got to go, one thing I learned is be transparent and vulnerable, that those were two, I think it was hard for all men to do. And that’s one of the things that I try to get men to see is that these are all things that if we’re transparent with all we can bring them out and we can expose them and then we can be okay with them ourselves. And, you know, as much as some of these things are hard to talk about, I think it’s it’s much needed and I value your time and appreciate you letting you have the opportunity to do so.


Brett Bartholomew  59:11  

I couldn’t agree more man guys until next time, this has been the art of coaching podcast Brett Bartholomew Nate Hoffmeister, signing off. We will see you next time.

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