In Art Of Coaching Podcast

Imagine being diagnosed with a disorder at a very young age, having doctors write you off, and learning that your parents were advised to put you in a facility and to move on with their lives.

This is essentially what today’s guest, Matt Marcinek, went through. After being diagnosed with cerebral palsy at 9 months of age, neurologists suggested that his parents admit him to a care facility because he might not be able to walk, talk, or perform daily tasks on his own.

His parents chose a different path.

Matt has not only proven the neurologists wrong by overcoming many of their doubts, but in the process has become an elite coach and fierce competitor. He is a brown belt in judo and, since the time of this recording, has earned his brown belt in jiu jitsu. In addition to competing, he is the owner of Marcinek Peak Performance Systems and specializes in teaching jiu jitsu to 4-6 year olds. On top of that, he has a master’s degree in psychology and educational counseling.

Today’s episode is all about how you can turn strife & struggle into strategy. Matt shares how he was able to own his situation, gain perspective, and use that to build advantages throughout his life. He gets very tactical on how you can do the same.

Matt and I also discuss:

  • How to start and approach difficult conversations

  • Overcoming obstacles without complaining

  • Why creativity makes you a better coach

  • Dealing with imposter phenomenon, anger, and vulnerability

Connect with Matt:


Instagram: @marcinek_peakperformance

If you believe in the message of today’s episode and are wanting to learn even more tactical communication skills, our Apprenticeship Communication Workshops are back on!

These are 2-day workshops of 10-15 people that are 100% focused on the development of interpersonal skills and preparing for life’s biggest moments. We accomplish this via situational role playing, video breakdowns, peer evaluations, and small group discussions. You will not be sitting and listening to powerpoint presentations! We get you in the trenches and create a safe place to fail.

Learn more about the Apprenticeship Communication Workshop here:

Apply to host your own event here:


Matt Marcinek  0:00  

I actually recommended that my parents put me in a facility and never looked back.


Brett Bartholomew  0:06  

Good Lord, really?


Matt Marcinek  0:07  

Yeah. So when I was first diagnosed, it went from that I was going to be quote unquote normal With no long lasting effects to pay, this might happen. And it’s a real possibility that you might just want to take him into a facility where he can get the care that he needs. And you have another son.


Brett Bartholomew  0:48  

Welcome to the Art of coaching podcast, a show aimed at getting to the core of what it takes to change attitudes, behaviors and outcomes in the weight room, boardroom classroom, and everywhere in between. I’m your host, Brett Bartholomew, I’m a performance coach, keynote speaker, and the author of the book conscious coaching. But most importantly, I’m a lifelong student interested in all aspects of human behavior and communication. I want to thank you for joining me. And now let’s dive into today’s episode.


Poor communication is the one thing that is guaranteed to make any situation in life. Worse. It is. And today’s episode is going to be an example of that. 


Now, before we start, I want to make sure that whether you’re a first time listener, or you’ve been listening for a while you, you understand what we’re trying to do to make change in that space. It’s one thing to kind of shout out cliches and mantras and all these things. It’s another thing to put tactical skills to the test and really create outcomes. And that’s something that we do every single time we run one of our Apprenticeship communication workshops. Yeah, guys, they’re back on. 


Now, if you haven’t heard of these workshops, or you’re new or anything like that, guys, what we do in art of coaching is we have a planned domain workshop of about 10 to 15 people and we do this all around the world, that is all 100% focused on interpersonal skills. Under constraints. That means we do role playing small group breakdowns, video breakdowns, pure Self evaluations, on how we communicate during some of life’s biggest moments. We’ve enacted things such as peer to peer conflicts, job negotiations, athlete based scenarios, if you’re dealing with a difficult personality, we’ve had surgeons that even enact certain situations that they’ve had to deal with disruptive patients. We’ve had people in human resources, whether they didn’t know how to handle a firing or a certain other issue in the workplace. We put these skills to the test and we also have some fun with it. So if you haven’t checked out our previous episodes, on the Apprenticeship, or another episode we have called improv is coaching, I highly suggest you do so because when we say improv, these are not where you can play, little make believe games that don’t apply. These are situations that you deal with in everyday life, every single day of our life is improvised. We don’t always know how we’re going to react in the moment. We don’t always know what to say in the moment. But we can practice rehearse and refine for these. So if you’re somebody that believes in what today’s episode is all about, which is vulnerability, learning how to self disclose at a higher level, learning how to relate and connect to others at a higher level seeking to understand so that you can build true lasting buy and these are for you. There’s no excuse. We make these very affordable, we do them all over, just go to,


Okay, now getting into the meat of this guy’s imagine something for a moment. And I don’t even know if you’re going to be able to but somebody out there of course can because this is fairly widespread in some circles. But imagine this. Imagine being diagnosed with cerebral palsy at nine months old. Having a neurologist basically write you off, saying not only would you never walk, and you might not even talk, you know what, it’s better off. You’re just put in a facility and almost forgotten about or written off because you may not be able to perform basic daily functions like feeding yourself dressing yourself anything like that. Well, today’s guest, Matt Marcinek went through exactly that and deals with it every day. And despite that he’s persevered. He’s achieved things like attaining the rank of Eagle Scout, as well as becoming the first degree brown belt, a first degree brown belt in judo and a purple belt in Brazilian jujitsu. He’s endured a 10 year losing streak and these sports amassing a record of 0 and 80 before even achieving his first win now, understand that he’s in a wheelchair, and it’s not something he’s ashamed of. It’s not something he runs from in discussion. It’s not something he hides or feels, any kind of way About he wants to be an example for others. And he shares so much of how he’s adapted today as a coach, during a time where it’s so easy for people just to judge, they come in, they see somebody in a wheelchair, they don’t know what term to use. They don’t know how to talk about it. They don’t know how to open these discussions, they don’t even know is this person able to coach me. And he’s going to talk about how he’s flipped that through his life, and he now has a master’s in educational counseling psychology from the University of Missouri in 2017, which is a mental performance coach, and teaches four to six year olds, Jujitsu. 


So today is all about how you can turn strife or struggle into a long term strategy. And for many of you who regardless of the field you’re in, still struggle with by and you’re not sure you feel like you’re never given the benefit of the doubt. Man, do you need to hear today’s story? Now, he also gives a lot of tactics and strategies we talk about what’s the right way to start difficult discussions, and I press back on  Matt knows kind of where I’m coming from, from a tough love standpoint. There’s times where he talks about, other people’s relative ignorance and not knowing how to bring up certain things. And I say, well tell us how you do it then. And we put him in these situations, and he does it and does it with a plump guys. Without further ado, our guest today. Matt Marcinek enjoy.


Guys, thanks for joining me on another episode of the podcast. I’m here today with Matt Marcinek. Matt, welcome to the show, buddy.


Matt Marcinek  6:30  

Thanks for having me, brother.


Brett Bartholomew  6:30  

Yeah, my pleasure. It’s been a long time coming, Matt, you’ve been a longtime supporter of our work, and we certainly appreciate that. And similarly, one thing and I want to cut right to the chase, because audiences today as you know, have a short attention span. And there’s so many podcasts out there and stories can get redundant and people want to know well who is this person and what’s in it for me and all these things. And I think one thing I’ve always appreciated about you is you get right to it, you don’t hide from anything, like you said, you’re an open book. And another thing I appreciate is there’s so many excuses today and we’re gonna nip it right in the bud. But you and overcoming everything that you’ve had to deal with, and I don’t even want to call it a disability but your situation, being a coach, a great person, a business minded individual and educator, but having to do all that through the confines of a wheelchair and having to expand your coaching abilities and manage perception and manage how you communicate knowledge. Like talk to us a little bit about this, they’ve gotten your background in the intro, but talk to us a little bit about this aspect because I want the audience to be faced with the fact that you know what, whatever they’re facing right now, there’s people out you that are doing so many unique things in an inspiring way with even greater obstacles and never complaining about it. 


Matt Marcinek  7:51  

So thanks. So yeah, it’s a super buff and super dope because people take one look at me and they don’t think successful martial artists and coach that’s probably the furthest thing from their mind. So what I have to do probably within Gosh, five to 10 to like maybe max 20 seconds, is put them at ease. And then I would have to say like kind of impress them right off the bat. Right so that’s a tough task. The first 15 to 20 seconds of meeting a person


Brett Bartholomew  8:42  

yeah and it is a tough task even for anybody and and like you said and I’m so glad you went there right off the bat because that’s one of the most common questions we get is How do I build buy in now what do I do now and even though I talked about in my book it takes time we talked about people don’t realize that like you’re still going to make first impressions people are they’re just going to I mean, I get it Matt and I’m five eight I’m from Omaha Nebraska I get a lot of guys that just say was a five a white boy know about helping me stay in the league or we both work with mixed martial artists and combat athletes and and I know you’ve competed and I like looks we all get judged but you have to overcome you have people that sit here and think Alright, that not only why should I trust you over all the other coaches out there, but what do you know now what do you have to lean on a lot? Do you lean on your competitive background. Do you not try to I mean, you’ve always struck me as somebody that never tries to overcompensate, which I think a lot of people make mistakes on, but walk me through how you go with this strategy.


Matt Marcinek  9:48  

is really One of the first things is humor. Okay. First thing is humor because a lot of people believe it or not, even though I think It’s dumb. They are very apprehensive to talk to me because they don’t want to be offensive. Right? So first thing right off the bat is people say things like, what do we call your Do you like to be called handicapped? Disabled? Do you like to be called differently able? Yeah. And I said, you know, Matt, it’s fine.


Brett Bartholomew  10:22  

Yeah, yeah, you can comment my name. That sounds good. Yeah.


Matt Marcinek  10:28  

or coach coach is Great. No, that’s like one of the first things to do. I like to use a little bit of humor, try to get their guard down a little bit. Get them to realize that no big shock, I am a normal person. And that and then kind of get to know them, ask them some questions. maybe it’s specifically about what they’re dealing with, like as a competitor, or where they want to go as a competitor. And then take things from my background, my struggles, or my successes and related to what they’re going through. And kind of make that instinct connection with them, I think is really important. And gives them a little bit of a break gives myself a little bit of, like, validity, like, okay, like, this guy just isn’t. He’s not a parlor trick. He’s not a novelty. He’s not someone that just wants to know, that just wants to do this. He actually knows what the hell he’s talking about it and can help me out.


Brett Bartholomew  11:33  

Yeah, and I think when you talk about humor, one of the things that I really liked when I asked you what are some things you’d want to talk about, when you come on the show? the thing that instantly made me know this was a fit is where you said the importance of being vulnerable, keeping things in perspective and not taking yourself too seriously. And those are three of the things that I tried telling coaches, when you’re trying to build buy and quit looking for the perfect thing to say quit looking for a way to build you up, like be vulnerable. There’s an art to self disclosure, there’s an art to being able to laugh at yourself. Humor is the closest connecting point between two people. but I have to imagine, right? You have in this diagnosis at nine years old, and you’re dealing with all these things that probably didn’t come naturally to you at first. And


Matt Marcinek  12:22  

it was actually not to the rub it is nine months old.


Brett Bartholomew  12:27  

Oh, nine months old. Okay. Yeah. Right. So, like, when we look at that, having been diagnosed nine months old, but either way, like, as a kid, as a teenager going through this The point being, you had to learn like, man, I was embarrassed to talk about my hospitalization for 16 years, right for 16 years, when did you really kind of get into your own of owning this situation? When did you come into where it was something you could laugh at? When it was something you could just realize that like, No, I’m not gonna let this define me. I’m not gonna let this thing hold me back. When was that? What was that process?


Matt Marcinek  13:00  

whether it was kind of, I don’t want to say that it was instantaneous, because obviously, there are points where you get mad, like when somebody mistreat you, or you feel like you’re being treated differently, or something like that. But there comes a point where, you know, give that little come to Jesus, talk with yourself. And you’re like, there’s literally, I can’t run from this. Like, no matter how much I want to be with the run, who I am, I have to accept it. And I’m just to give you guys an example. The one day, I was at a restaurant, hanging out with my buddies. And I was wearing sandals, and the waitress came over and she dumped a tray of drinks, close to my feet. And she said, Oh, my God, Honey, are you okay? And I said, Yeah, but I think my feet are drunk because they just tried to walk. And, she came over later, and she put her hand on my shoulder. And she goes, I think it’s great that you could use humor in such a dire situation. And I was like, Is my situation dire? Yeah. Like  There’s nothing dire. in my situation. My CP is not terminal. Right. CP, CP is a non progressive disorder. Like, I’m pretty good. Like, I’m 37 years old. Everything is pretty well set now. So it’s not gonna get any worse. So, it’s only dire because other people make it.


Brett Bartholomew  14:54  

Well, and I would say this too Matt. I mean, frankly, there’s not a lot of folks that understand it because it’s not talked about I mean, I’ve worked with coaches in the past that have a wide range of, of ailments situations and what have you. Everybody does, right? Like there is no real healthy, nobody’s 100% healthy, right? Even the person that looks it, oh, like sunblock shoulder, or this person’s got knee surgeries, right? Like, now it’s all relative, right? But if people it doesn’t come to people’s minds, right away, to reach out and look at these things and say, Man, what do I know about cerebral palsy? What do I know about this unless they’re confronted with it? So, when I worked with an individual named Jason Dougherty, I mean, another truly inspirational guy that was a coaching, he never let himself be defined by any situation. I wanted to learn more about that. And I think that’s why this episode fits into today’s social climate so much, whether we’re talking about everything that went on with Black Lives Matter and everything else. There’s just things from a communication standpoint that everybody benefits. 


So you mentioned, and I’m playing a friendly devil’s advocate here. You mentioned at the beginning people saying, well, how do we talk about this? Now, they said, What do we call you, which I think is silly. But, Do we reference it as disabled or handicapped? Well, unless you’ve experienced that, or unless they’ve done that research or less, they’ve been confronted with that, we’re all going to have some level of ignorance around that. We are because you care. It’s tough. You care about this person. I even know we talked about it before this podcast, I said, Listen, man, I’m sure 90% of the people that talk to you want to dive into this? Yet you don’t want to be defined by it. But I hope you’re not offended if we lean into this, because you’re going to inspire a lot of people that have not heard it. And we make that mistake, it’s no different than if I programmed a certain exercise. Let’s say I’m coaching eight groups a day. And I’ve performed a certain drill or exercise for those eight groups. It’s very easy for me to think, man, I program this a lot, when in reality, I don’t I just happen to do it a lot within that program for those eight groups. But I get tired of coaching that movement, because it would seem like I’m coaching it all the time. You may get tired of talking about this all the time, I get tired of talking about a lot of things that people say, Hey, would you do a show on this again, but then we forget how few people have actually really heard that stuff. Because nobody talks about it as openly as frequently, it takes at least three times. So like, how do you handle? Like, when somebody says that? Clearly, they’re not trying to be offensive and saying it’s not dire. Where’s that two way empathy? I mean, I’m sure part of us to understand like, yeah, such, this person probably just doesn’t know how to talk about it. Is that where humor helps?


Matt Marcinek  17:38  

Sure. Absolutely. Because they understand that if I don’t take it seriously, they don’t have to approach it as soon as they think it is. But, one of the one of the benefits, there’s a lot of people get surprised when I say that, one of the biggest blessings in my life is my disability. And it really is because what it offers me is a tremendous, tremendous amount of perspective, right? perspective that other people don’t have. Right? So one of the benefits, as you mentioned, what are the like Am I comfortable Talking about CP a lot? You have to understand, do like, I teach four to six year olds, Jujitsu. So I’m on the net with about 4 to 6 year olds, at least two to three times a week. I’m going to get asked, How can I crawl? How come I’m not walking? And I have to be very open and very honest with the 4 to 6 year old.


Brett Bartholomew  18:53  

Are you saying just sorry, because there’s a little bit audio a four to six year old? Are you saying 46 year old? 


Matt Marcinek  18:58  

I’m sorry, four to six years old


Brett Bartholomew  19:00  

And so kids who aren’t socially aware typically are going to ask us Yeah,


Matt Marcinek  19:04  

so as funny as this sounds, I have to it’s almost like approaching adults in the same manner as the four to six year old 


Brett Bartholomew  19:14  

that makes sense. 


Matt Marcinek  19:15  

As a little kids, and you just say, when they’re like, Hey, since I met, Why are you crawling around? And it’s like, well, it’s, it’s, I may get lucky, because when he was born, you know, blah, blah, blah. you might intelligent that up for an adult, but you might not either. You might get them to understand it better by putting it in the most simple terms possible.


Brett Bartholomew  19:44  

Yeah. Well, it’s just it’s a naive perspective. I don’t think you’re being offensive in saying that. It’s saying it’s an eye perspective. Listen, we take a similar approach with haters and trolls. You used to get offended by them. But now it’s kind of I remember somebody saying, and I think it was an actor. I can’t remem number but he said, I just look at them like a toddler that wants to eat their Krantz, like  they don’t know they should eat it and they want to eat it. And they don’t know it’s bad for him. And so I remember, it’s the same way like these people are just they don’t. A lot of people don’t know what they’re doing what they’re saying. But it’s a two way street with that, right? Especially in today’s world, I’m sure you can appreciate that it is so easy now to offend somebody, it is so easy to do this. And so I think somebody like you that just nipped it in the head, it nipped it in the bud and says, Hey, this is what it is. I’m focused on your goals, this isn’t going to hold me back, is it gonna hold you back? Good, and let’s get busy. And let’s not worry about it.


Matt Marcinek  20:39  

I mean, here’s the thing to understand that a lot of these people, even though, it might irritate me. Coming from a good place, their coming from a place of, genuine niceness and a genuine compliment. So for example, like, if I’m at the grocery store, I always want to hang in there, write a book, called the stupid stuff that said to me at the grocery store. But like, this actually happened, I’m at the grocery store, and a woman comes up to me and she goes, it’s great that you do all your own shopping. And I just said, I think it’s great that you do. Yeah. But she really meant, yeah, it’s nice to see you being independent, and not letting things stop.


Brett Bartholomew  21:40  

Well, Matt can let’s be real, there’s a lot of things I say on this show, they could get me in trouble. But you know, we all know that there’s people that I worked at a grocery store for a long, while, not a long time. But as a teenager, I worked at a grocery store for about a year or so. Right? And we saw people that didn’t have any kind of whatever term wants to be used handicap disability, what have you use the car to daily, we see people in life that use, failed relationships as a metaphorical handicap for why they don’t want to, trust somebody, again, we see coaches who,  don’t get on social media and try to use like, well, our organization doesn’t allow it. And I know there’s some are, but people make up handicaps people make up things all day long. And so yeah, I would say that lady, and that’s the tough thing, right? None of us are trained in communication, Matt, none of us. And so, when we have people that see something, we have this world where everybody wants to make excuses for themselves. And then somebody that has a naive perspective, but a genuine one, this lady wanted to make you feel good. it says that, like, people just don’t know how to craft things. And that’s hard. I mean, has it? I know, you said you couldn’t run from this, and you had to use humor, but even for you, it has to be hard for you to communicate back and really take a second and say, All right, I know what they mean. Like, I know that like because if you say Well, I’m glad you’re doing your own shopping too all of a sudden that woman thinks Oh, shit, sorry. like, so where do you hold yourself accountable without as well?


Matt Marcinek  23:16  

Well, that’s the thing. Like, there has to be this like, intimate filter that as soon as those words leave her mouth, and hit my brain, like we’re have to be like, something we said, process it in the quickest way possible. figure out like what she meant, know that she meant it in the nicest way possible. And just say, Thank you, ma’am. I really appreciate it. it’s just like when I was going through my 10 year losing trick in jujitsu and judo. I’m a competitive, I’m a competitive person, I hate to lose. My disability is not an excuse for poor performance or anything like that. So I would get up the mat. And I’d be sitting in my wheelchair, kind of brooding kind of pissed off a little bit. And people like random people at the tournament, would come up to me and either shake my hand or like, hug me and they’re like, the only thing that matters is that you got out there, buddy, and like, give me that stuff. And in my head, I killed them twice already. I’ve like eviscerated them physically in my head because I’m like, I’m thinking like get off of me. Right? Like, I just I just want to be alone. I just want to be pissed off. But, I kind of have to extend your hand smile nod. Say Oh, thanks a lot, man. Really appreciate it really, because they do. They are really well meaning but they don’t understand. They’re just being because I’m in a wheelchair, or that I walk off the mat, that doesn’t mean that I’m just happy to be there.


Brett Bartholomew  25:08  

Sure, well, what what they’re struggling with is in conversation opener, right? And when we open a conversation with anybody, it’s generally or it should be to search for a commonality, right. Like, that’s why we give self disclosures or that’s why we say certain things. It should be, in some circumstances, not yours. And I think you’ve made this clear, to express concern for another person, right, like to share experiences, because people relatability is what we look for people talk about autonomy, mastery, and purpose, really being the preeminent social animal, we want to relate to others, right? We want to express our point of view, and express ourselves and feel like somebody else can be there. But I think a lot of times people don’t understand that to do this, they need to heighten their personal knowledge. Right? It’s saying like, and like you said, it’s well, how would I feel in that situation? Well, not a lot of folks put themselves in that situation daily. I mean, we see that all the time, you know, and, then also, it’s like, is there a genuine desire to just say something? Are you trying to develop a relationship? it’s kind of like with everything going on from a racial standpoint, saying, Well, I understand well, no, you don’t, you may appreciate, or have an appreciation for the fact of what things are going through, but you don’t understand it. I’ve talked about it before. In the past, I had an intern once who was so desperately to relate to an athlete who had witnessed a traumatic event in their life. The intern then, shared one about their life. And the guy was like, listen, like, I appreciate that. But like, this ain’t that. You know what I mean? And the timing was off, and all those other things?


Matt Marcinek  26:41  

Yeah, sometimes you can miss the mark.


Brett Bartholomew  26:42  

Yeah. Well, how do you not when you don’t get trained for it? How do you not?


Matt Marcinek  26:47  

So like, a lot of times, like, and this is no offense to anybody that has this affliction, but like, somebody wants related or tried to relate their diabetes, to my cerebral palsy. And like, I’m just sitting there thinking to myself, like, Dude, you can’t eat gummy bears? I can’t walk. 


Brett Bartholomew  27:11  

Yeah, it’s just not about them at that point, you know, because,


Matt Marcinek  27:14  

you know what I mean? Like, it’s not even close to the situation that, we’re in, like, I know that, like you said, you want to, they wanted to find that common ground, but throw your arm around me and go ahead and listen, I struggle with my diabetes, just like you do with your CP. Well, that would be like me saying to somebody who is completely paralyzed and can’t use any of their body, I know what you’re going through, man. I mean, I kind of do in the fact that we both sit in wheelchairs, but I mean, I could move a lot of my extremities, so like, I can’t fully relate either.


Brett Bartholomew  27:58  

Yeah, it happens. It happens every day, we had somebody that you know, we were talking about pre COVID wanted to take a vacation as a family, because we hadn’t done that in a while. And we were talking about the constraints of obviously having a newborn at the time. And somebody once said, Yeah, I just hate leaving my cat behind. And it’s just, I appreciate that the cat is like your baby. and as you get older, you just learned to kind of smile, you realize that we all are, and certainly I’ve said dumb things. That’s part of the reason I love the podcast is I’ve had some people be like, what kind of editing do you do? What kind of I mean, in the intro to this, I talked about how you were diagnosed at nine months old. And in the interview, I said, nine years, and those things happen. That’s the nature of conversation. 


But let’s get to a solution here, right, and let’s do some fun role playing. It doesn’t have to be perfect, what have you. But let’s say somebody does come across you and they’re like, damn, Matt, I hear you. I heard what you said on Brad’s podcast, like how would you and I get you want them to use your name, just like a normal person, I get it. But knowing that no matter what, somebody is still going to tend to walk on coals. I mean, my stepfather has polio, right. And when I first met him, I was in high school. And I mean, polio, took a dramatic effect on his right hand. And so I said, Mom, well, when I meet him, like, do I shake his hand? Do I not again, I’m a teenager, I’ve never once in my life come across somebody in polio. And I want to meet this person who meant a lot to my mom. And I and my mom just goes to shake his hand like you normally would look him in the eye, and I go great, but there are some folks that everybody’s got preferences. So just talk to me about that. If somebody meets you in the street today, they meet you at a conference, what what are the things give them some tips for how to think about these things, address these things? And don’t try to refrain from just saying, Just treat it like normal? Because some people don’t know what normal is like, you know what I mean? Some people aren’t even self aware enough to know what normal means. But if you could give some tips to folks of addressing these kinds of things, what are some of those?


Matt Marcinek  29:56  

Oh, like, specifically, if you’re meeting me? Yeah, I’m comfortable with my disability. So, I’m comfortable with you this asking me like, how did you end up in the tech? Right? But that’s me. That’s me, I’m fine with that I deal with it every single day. Right? Or, maybe not. Maybe not always lead with the disability part. I can understand, trying to get rid of the elephant in the room. But maybe if we’re, like, let’s say we’re doing something for the art of coaching. And somebody doesn’t know me. Maybe say, Well, what type of coaching do you do? First? Right. And then, oh, I do, Jiu Jitsu, judo, and Oh, you do that with your disability? Yeah, I do. And what’s your disability again? So then, like, natural


Brett Bartholomew  31:06  

it’s a  flow.


Matt Marcinek  31:07  

It’s a natural flow with the hey you’re in a chair and you fight people. That’s awesome.


Brett Bartholomew  31:13  

Yeah, I think of it like this. If I could offer this and feel free to build off of it. I just call it the hot food principle. Like, you know, if I’m grilling something or if I’m cooking something, there’s a period of time and then now I’m learning to do it better. I didn’t know in the past that you’re supposed to let’s say a steak rest. Right, let it rest. And that’s not because it’s so hot, you can eat it right then it’s because it’s actually just not done cooking yet. Let it rest a little bit, don’t cut right into it. And I look at things like this no matter what I’m no matter who I’m working with, whether it was a celebrity, whether it was an NFL or UFC guy or anything like that, or gal or a person or situation no matter what it is. Just don’t jump into that stuff right away. you’ve taken this thing off the grill, right that you’ve got the first introduction or you’re in the process of interacting with somebody, let it rest and then when you do bite in, you can get to the juicy parts later, but I never, once and I’m not somebody that starstruck and I know you aren’t either. I think there’s only one person and that was just my childhood favorite athlete. Ken Griffey Jr. Love that. Yeah. Love Ken Griffey, Jr. But when I when a person came in, I wouldn’t be like, I never went to look up an athlete stats that year and been like, hey, hey, dude. Great year, last year, love. Congratulations on the Super Bowl F that they just want to be treated like a kid from Ohio or wherever they’re from sports. Right? Does that principle make sense to you? Is that an accurate like, example that could be used?


Matt Marcinek  32:40  

For sure. Because there’s something in mental performance called like a pink elephant principle? Yep. Where like you say, don’t think about a pink elephant. Don’t think about a pink elephant Don’t think about and what comes up. Pink Elephant. Right? That’s the first thing that pops into your mind is a pink elephant when he doesn’t really don’t think about the pink elephant. Right? Yeah, first thing that you think about is think pink elephant. So there’ll be like a person coming up to me. And like, I say walking. That’s just my vernacular. I don’t say like, I love the people. I say I walk up to people, even though I know. But if I walk up to a person, and in their head there, I don’t say anything about his chair. And then like, the first thing that bothers me and the wheelchair,


Brett Bartholomew  33:33  



Matt Marcinek  33:34  

you know what I mean? Like,  you said, have a nice natural flow. And then, maybe not bombard me with questions about my wheelchair, maybe say something like, you shave your head real nice, even


Brett Bartholomew  33:53  

I felt that helps you, I asked about the advantages, when I’ve worked with members of the military that have lost limbs have done all these things. And, you know, after after we got to know each other and work through some things, you know, I, the first time I would bring anything up, you know, one, I’d give them the opportunity if they wanted to, over the course of many interactions, to tell me the story. There’s been times where I didn’t even acknowledge anything. And a guy was like, you know, why aren’t you going to ask me about, how part of my foot got blown off, and I said, Listen, I figure when you if and when you want to tell me you will. In the meantime, we’re going to work, whatever your story is, and I promise you all have an appreciation and respect for it. Not gonna change the way I treat you. But here’s the thing Matt, right? There’s this thing called the person situation context. And the number one rule of it is that people bring considerable personal baggage into every encounter. So when that person goes, Oh, the wheelchair that we’ll like what they wanted, I mean, everybody’s got inherent insecurities and nobody knows how to talk about them. They don’t. And so what they’re so desperately seeking all of us to some degree, no matter how trained refined, self aware. We want to know how others deal with things, because we experience varying levels of similar emotions, not afflictions, because you’re right. Diabetes is not, cerebral palsy, but we all experienced similar levels of emotions about not being okay with some part of ourselves or if you are okay, still being frustrated. Does that make sense?


Matt Marcinek  35:21  

Absolutely, absolutely.


Brett Bartholomew  35:22  

Hey, guys, hope you’re enjoying this episode with Matt, There’s long been a debate about whether our behavior is determined by the types of people we are, or the situation we find ourselves in. And you’re hearing Matt talk a lot about this today. And now, it’s generally recognized that our behavior is influenced by both. But it’s also influenced by timing and other circumstances. And here’s the thing, it’s one thing to know that, it’s another thing to spout that off and act like you understand it, it’s another thing entirely to train for it. And that’s exactly what we do at our Apprenticeship communication workshops. I understand some of you can’t leave home. And I understand that some of you may not want to appreciate that. But for those of you who can do, we run these all over the world. And you can learn more at If you’re not ready to take that step, we do have online courses. Specifically, if you want to learn more about human interaction, connection, behavior and the complexities. Well, our online course Bought In can help with that as well. Either way, check out And you’re going to have a lot of these resources that are hearing curated for you, so that you can learn in any environment that you want. These are research back. And these are being used by organizations. These are being used by sports teams, individuals, people in health care all over. So don’t worry, if you’re not a strength coach, none of that matters. What matters is that you take the time to learn how to be a better communicator, or relate to people. Alright, let’s get back to a masterclass on how to do that through Matt Marcinek


Matt Marcinek  36:49  

like, one of the things is, a lot of times, like, let’s say I’m working with a fighter, and, they say to me,Matt I want to be like, UFC champion, but I feel like nobody believed it. they go on, they tell their story about no one living in me, or in them. When I was diagnosed at nine months old, the neurologist told my parents that not only would I never walk, they said that I would never talk, I would never be able to hold the pencil and to feed myself, and do any of life’s daily normal functions. They actually recommended that my parents put me in a facility and never looked back. 


Brett Bartholomew  37:44  

Good lord. Really? 


Matt Marcinek  37:46  

Yeah. So when I was first diagnosed, it went from that I was going to be quote, unquote, normal, with no long lasting effects to pay, this might happen. And it’s a real possibility that you might just want to take him into a facility where he can get the care that he needs. And, you have another son,


Brett Bartholomew  38:16  

I can’t even believe that’s legal.


Matt Marcinek  38:20  

Well, I mean, yeah, it was like, it was the age channel. And like, a lot of people knew about CP or like, a lot of stuff. But, so like, when I don’t typically lead with that story with my athletes, even though they probably heard it now from doing podcasts and things like that. But that’s a good opening for me a lot of times to say, like, Hey, man, when you don’t feel like somebody, let me tell you about somebody not believing in you. Because my biggest thing is, not only this guy told me, like, we’ve all heard things I’m sure like, you’ve said a million times before, with the book, and art of coaching. you have your haters, saying that you’re not going to be successful, this isn’t gonna be successful. Who wants a book on coaching? Right? That’s one thing to say, you’re not going to be successful. This person told me I wasn’t going to be useful. 


Brett Bartholomew  39:28  

Yeah. Or even, that you shouldn’t exist in a way. if somebody is trying to tell you that, going back to the, put them in a facility like that. It’s like a erase memory, right? Like,


Matt Marcinek  39:43  

you know, he’ll somebody else’s problem, right. is basically what they told my parents, thank God, my parents didn’t listen. and they said, that’s our son, and we’ll take care of them the best that we can, until and I’ll get to that point if it In regards to it, we can, but at least wanted to give it a shot. Thank God they did, because they turned out as it as well as I did. But, I think you have, the bigger point of that story was like, I’m gonna have to let that shit come to you though, you know what I mean? Like, you just can’t say like, here’s my story and like, I want you to glean from this what you can you have to find the opening with your athletes to be able to say, hey, not exactly the same thing. But I know where you’re coming from. And I know what that feeling is. And this is how we get through it.


Brett Bartholomew  40:46  

Yeah, well, I mean, and you did a wonderful job explaining again, it goes into that person situation context of, how does somebody regard themselves that’s their self concept, right? your self concept, as I’m hearing you describe it as somebody like, Hey, by all intents and purposes, I consider myself normal. I’m used to this, this is what I’ve dealt with my whole life. It’s not going to hold me back. Right? And, the definition of normals screwed up anyway, right? So anybody who’s normal and who would want to be, but then there’s this belief we have about our abilities to succeed in any kind of enterprise. And that’s self efficacy. So if you have a clear self concept, I know how to regard myself, I know the kind of situations in which I’m efficacious, right? That determines the nature of their encounters. But when we have people that don’t really know themselves, and then they doubt themselves a lot, they project that stuff, going back to that baggage onto other people, and they don’t realize how they come in, man. Like, here’s the thing I can think about. Stephen Hawking, right, who had a form of ALS, here’s somebody completely. I mean, I’m sorry, I don’t know what another term for a disabled, like, had to have voice recognition software, all this still made an impact on the world, similar situation and respect that like, people wrote him off, he’s gonna die. He’s gonna do this. Now I know you’re hospitalized or what have you. But it’s just like, how people cannot do their due diligence in the historical context. Nobody would go up to Stephen Hawking and be like, well, nobody discerning and be like, hey, Steven, tell me about your disability. This dude’s ideas were so big. And so beyond what was going on in that chair, or that room or anything. And I have always looked at you the same way, man, like when I hear about your coaching, I’m like, What a unique advantage to be able and not only an advantage of you talking about, hey, like when you have to crawl around teaching these four to six year olds, but you’re teaching people math skills. In it, let’s look at jujitsu in a situation in the context where sometimes your inability to maneuver a part of your body can actually be a strength, you could show people how to get into different positions, or how to leverage a distribution of your body weight, because you’re probably more efficient or proficient at at rolling in certain circumstances or being able to utilize leverage, because you’ve had to, and maybe not, but like, talk to me about some of the advantages of the situation you’re in as it pertains to you being a better coach.


Matt Marcinek  43:10  

So there’s, actually a lot, right. So it’s because other people are able to move freely, and things like that. They forget to get in certain situations like so not only do my legs, not function at 100% I have a lot of Total spasticity in my left arm.


Brett Bartholomew  43:44  

Explain that a little for the audience, me if you don’t mind, 


Matt Marcinek  43:46  

So when I was from the time that I was born, up until I was 13, I actually held my left arm up like a claw and it was very rigid till I was 13. And I had an operation my left hand was basically unusable. And then I had surgery to like relocate some tendons and, tie things around. And I basically got about man, if I had to put a number to it, like maybe about 60% years of my left arm, but definitely not as much as my right arm. So not having two function to fully functioning arms and then not having to fully functioning legs in jujitsu. It’s allowed me though to not get lazy like I have to use my head a lot of times, add extra pressure to techniques. I have to, like position my arms in a certain way to get the most pressure exerted techniques, some areas of jujitsu, like being on the bottom or other people would think that that would be, is definitely a disadvantageous position like being pinned. On the bottom, I figured out ways to submit people from my batch, right? Just with people laying on top of me, I’ve figured out ways to submit people from my back sometimes, I actually, brought my head into submitions for extra leverage points. And, will that always work for my students? No, but I mean, it does. Conceptually, I’m able to show them like, how leverage and, just using the concepts of jujitsu, they don’t have to get applied in the most perfect of situations to be effective.


Brett Bartholomew  45:53  

No, because it’s not about that maneuver, it’s about the concepts within it, right? It’s about


Matt Marcinek  45:58  

just as long as, I’m able to take somebody’s arm away from the body, and bend it the way that it’s not supposed to go with the same amount. With the same conceptual feeling, I’m still going to be effective. So it’s not about being perfect every single time when you get in, you know, the textbook, armbar the, or doing the textbook, choke 100% of the time, because life is imperfect, right? Life isn’t perfect. Sometimes it’s a little messy, and it takes sometimes you don’t take the prettiest way, from point A to point B, but I mean, he’s got to make sure that you get to point B sometimes.


Brett Bartholomew  46:44  

Yeah. with that, what, what are some other let’s talk about communicative advantages. in terms of now, we’ve talked about, I think the biggest one of how you address the buy in factor right off the bat is, hey, I’m going to use humor. And I’m going to disarm this. And we’re going to open up for thoughtful dialogue here. And I’m not going to worry about some of the awkward moments that can arise by certain people not knowing how to address it. So you touched on that you touched on having to relate certain concepts, get into different positions, all those other things. What is another way like, how has this and people not knowing always how to talk to you improved your ability to talk to them, whether it’s mannerisms, whether it’s how you begin a conversation, anything, when it’s not about you, and it’s about that other person, how has this made you a better communicator on that end?


Matt Marcinek  47:40  

It a lot of times, I believe I’m able to put myself in the other person’s shoes, as funny as that sounds. Because I know, I’ve experienced so many people feeling awkward towards me, that, like, I’m able to recognize that awkwardness in other people. And I’m able to either, like I said before, either disarming with some humor, or, even when I’m explaining techniques on the mat, you have to understand that for the most part, I’ve been doing judo jujitsu for almost 20 years now. And I’ve been teaching it for almost 20 years, I think it’s around 18 now, but I would say about 90%, maybe 80% Of all the techniques that I teach, I can’t even perform. Like, I don’t have the ability to do that myself. So a lot of times, like, let’s say I’m teaching like a foot trip, I take my hands and be like, pretend this is my foot. And I’m going to pock it at a 90 degree angle, and I’m going to bring it through but I’ve had to adapt in that way to people, I’ve had to adapt and be able to show them or I’ve had to grab two other people. And, basically just take their feet and place them side by side to show one person, a technique. So it’s my whole No, I know, we always talked about being adaptable my whole day, in some way, shape or form isn’t that occasion. and one that I’m not always ready for, but it’s kind of doing it on the fly.


Yeah, well, I think that’s the nature of being vulnerable, right doing it on the fly. I know that’s like at our apprenticeship workshops, why everything is improv oriented. When you do stuff on Apply it enhances reflection, it enhances an opportunity to go back and say, Wow, I really wasn’t perfect there. Well, yeah, cuz you don’t get a script a life. You don’t get a script any of those moments, what were you?


And if I could just say something like, I said it before that my disability is one of the biggest blessings in my life. And, it is because from the vulnerability perspective, like, if you really think about it, a lot of my students have either seen me, or they’ve heard me talk about all I’ve lost for 10 years. Now, in martial arts, a lot of people use the rink, and use their title, and, use their black belt as like, this highest honor to kind of hide in there hide by in there, they hide by their rank, and you know, it just like, when you’re a D, wonder, NFL strength coach, you know, like, they use their title, I’m like, hey, look, I’ve made it I’m here this is the pinnacle. the best thing for me is, a lot of my students have heard me talk about team lose over and over and over again. So I get hired and tell people hey, I’m the best. And I do things this way. And, I do things that way. They’ve seen me at my lowest point, sometimes, with my competitive career, and they still come back and they want hours for me. And that is the biggest compliment that somebody can ever pay. You because, they know that I’m not fake. And again, I can’t hide from anything I can say, Oh, back in the day, I was all city karate champion. And I was undefeated. And, I took our club guys, and unfortunately, it wasn’t on video, but trust me, I did. Yeah. and like, I can’t really fake my resume, my resumes and fake it’s all there in black and white. You know, and I can’t say to prospective students, prospective students will see me lose, quote unquote inspiring a lot.  but then like, there’s also that, that Nomad that I get from them a lot, where it’s like, Hey, you’re a pretty tough dude. Yeah. And like, you went through hell, and you didn’t quit, and things like that. So that part of my resume that authenticity is what, I think a lot of times draws people, to me, no, sometimes it doesn’t. And that’s okay. sometimes people do want the black belt because like a black belt, or a lot of titles by your name, or, like in your field in your area, like, a lot of certifications behind somebody’s name like that. make somebody feel comfortable. Like it’s like the movie Alec Boyd. There’s, he has to be on the box. Because it makes people feel comfortable. And that’s okay. They’re not my audience. They’re not people that need to be.


Brett Bartholomew  53:26  

Well, that’s the thing, no one knowing who that audience is. And being able to discern that and not not really worry about those things, right. There’s certain people that are always going to find themselves in those situations, and really, their success long term is going to be predicated on their willingness to be vulnerable, and their willingness to be steadfast and persistent. I’m continually learning more about who my audience is, and isn’t, and there’s folks like you who have been day one. And I think that your life experience plays a huge role in that, though, I don’t want to be presumptuous. But you’ve always understood that things are more complex than they seem. And that also there’s great opportunities for us to be able to adapt when we’re faced with a variety of constraints. Now, for you that constraint means one thing, but we have other coaches that constraints mean, like they really just communication and being around people and having to make decisions in the moment is terrifying, and in a way and certainly not to be indelicate, I think you know how I mean this phrase, in a way for them, it’s paralyzing, and it’s not paralyzing in the same way as you it’s not comparable to you. It’s just an experience that they have that they have to learn how to overcome, no different than that situation of how we can face those things 


and with vulnerability because you’ve used that term a lot and I think you use it well and I think you know how it is right? You’re not using it. It’s such a pop culture phrase now of being vulnerable and leaning in. and that’s fine. But what is something you still struggle with? From a vulnerability standpoint, I know you’re as comfortable relatively As you can be given your situation, what have you, but so this doesn’t even have to apply to your situation, Matt, it can just apply to you as a human being. Where do you still struggle opening up?


Matt Marcinek  55:11  

Oh, man.


Brett Bartholomew  55:16  

million dollar question we’re getting to the end of the podcast. The hard one, you can think


Matt Marcinek  55:21  

you hit me with a Barbara Walters like, Oh, if you’re gonna hit a tree you’re gonna get the bees.


Brett Bartholomew  55:26  

Hey, and, silence is okay, feel free to take a couple moments our audience appreciates this. So


Matt Marcinek  55:34  

honestly, man, it would probably be, for as open and honest as I am. there’s the fact that I do want to have my own gym one day, right? That I do want to be considered like, one of the best coaches out there. Because as easy as it is for me to say that, to vocalize that. no matter what, no matter how honest I am about my disability, there’s still that little voice in the back of my head, that imposter phenomenon that it’s telling me like, oh, hang on, man. Like, we’ve got a lot of good stuff here. by like, you’re still bite off a lot more than you could chew. when you say that stuff. Because I’m as confident as I can be. But, there’s like, a, there’s a real dichotomy with me a lot of times in that one, I think I’m like, one of the biggest badass is walking the planet in one area, and then two a lot of, times, like, no matter how much I feel that way, in the back of my mind. I’m so scared that I’m not good enough, right? that I’m not good enough that, I’m not going to be able to live up to what I want to accomplish, or that I’m not doing enough. there’s always that feeling of like, my day is it busy or not, that I’m that other people are putting in more work than I am. And a lot of times that scares me because I don’t want to stay where I am in life. So I think like, that’s where that’s a place where, even though I fully realized I just admitted it for like, a minute or two. Like, I’m really afraid to fully vocalize that. All of that. 


Brett Bartholomew  58:11  

Why do you think that is? 


Matt Marcinek  58:14  

I don’t know. Um, I would guess that it’s because just like everything else. Like I don’t know if I’ve proven so many doubters wrong in my life. That I don’t know if one time, I’m afraid that they’re going to be right. 


Brett Bartholomew  58:44  

And here’s the thing thatif there comes out time, what if they are, you know, if there is somebody out there if there is a time where somebody thinks somebody is going to choke and they’re going to choke and they choke Well, wait, in what context of life has that not already occurred?


Matt Marcinek  58:59  

Because, there’s always, I’m sure you have them too. There’s always that one guy out there. It’s gonna be like,


Brett Bartholomew  59:07  

Oh, do we talk about all the time I futureproofing on the podcast, I always say if I ended up taking I had almost taken the job in the NFL in 2015. And had I done that, let’s say we went Oh, in 19 Oh, and 16 Oh, and 20 if that was even possible, which it’s not but let’s say what people would have been right then they would have been like, Oh, so much for Mr. Conscious coaching. looks like he should have stayed talking about programming and not about people. 


Matt Marcinek  59:31  

keep writing books, man. 


Brett Bartholomew  59:33  

Right. Right. But like, Hey, I mean, when you accept that, that’s the human condition. And that we all I mean, it goes back to Sean Froyo. Right. Like we all that’s people and the reality is if you that’s where we kind of brush off the cliche quotes but they’re cliche for a reason. You don’t want to lose shit man, keep your ass out of the arena 


Matt Marcinek  59:55  



Brett Bartholomew  59:55  

And I know when I competed in Golden Gloves and what have you, I won my first fight as an amateur boxer by knockout I was on, Oh God, I thought it was awesome. The next one I lost my points and I was so pissed because I didn’t even feel like I got in a fight because it was just a lanky dude, that pitter patter. like us on the big screen. Yeah. And I was just like, and my girlfriend at the time was there. And of course, my family, my girlfriend, I think my girlfriend at the time, was that the first five but none of my family was, and then my family and my best friend and a different girl I was dating was that this other fight. And so then it wasn’t just like, I lost, but I was like, how I lost. I was like, wait, I lost a fight. But this dude just gave me like butterfly kisses. And I was so pissed because I didn’t know how to control my temper at the time, because I’m straight up Wolverine. Right? I just remember I went into the third round of that, like, just, I mean, blitzkrieg mode. So and somebody got it on camera. So now I’m enbarassed, three ways. I lost lost infront of my girlfriend, the way I lost, and then it was on cameras for ways. But dude, that’s the cost of doing business, the cost of doing business of anything? And so I just, you talked about looking at little kids a certain way with their understanding their naive perspective. Cool. Somebody says, I told you so man, just smile. And plus, the failures aren’t so significant, in how the history of humanity? There have been some pretty bad blunders. Yeah, there’s not much that you couldn’t do.


I mean, think of the Yeah, I mean, we could go on and on and on. But, and 70% of the world deals with imposter phenomenon. But what you said is a very real thing. I think just understanding that that fear that anxiety is natural. It’s a part of it. It’s nothing to be ashamed of, I think that people just have to expect it, because you’re never really going to overcome it. And what’s the opposite of overcoming it being a narcissist and thinking all the time, I think you just channel it. There’s a great story about Lin Manuel Miranda, who is a huge inspiration for me, and he had to perform Hamilton at the White House, and he wouldn’t even done with Hamilton, he was just performing the opening song. And he was like, when I stood on stage right in front of President Obama at the time was the president. He goes I was already looking for the exits in case I bombed and, and then he had to perform once in front of Eminem. And he goes, Well, somebody goes, How did you handle that? And like, Eminem said, what if you make a mistake after the show? And he goes, well, then I’ll just say it’s a rewrite. When you get to different points in your career Early on, you’re gonna be like, Oh, I just, I blew that warm up or I sent in this report and that was bad. Or like when we published conscious coaching, the Amazon or the Kindle CreateSpace, whatever platform mixed a bunch of things around so people were getting some copies of the book at the time that were upside down. And it was Amazon’s fault. It was Amazon and then some people were getting typos or what have you so I’m on the phone day and night and in because I thought it was gonna go guys, the people are gonna think this is me and I’m cheeting on them and I’m cheating out of money, you guys Ramazan How can you do this? And you just realize, dude, everybody’s got their own life shit sandwiches, just keep moving. Keep


Matt Marcinek  1:03:07  

 Yeah, yeah, I mean, honestly, like we talked about perspective before. I know that you like to have like actionable stuff for your listeners to take away. And one of the biggest things that I can give listeners to take away from it is like when you’re having a bad day or, all that stuff happens. When I was in the hospital with I think it was my third surgery. So I had my my left arm, as I mentioned before, and my leg operate, and at the same time, I had had my left ankle, pin straight. They took out a part of my ankle, and they put I think, two plates and four screws in there. And then I had the while they were in there, I was like just take care of my left arm. So I had multiple surgeries that are the left side of my body at one time. And I don’t think I have to tell you that hurt. I was in a hospital and the young man that was in the hospital bed next to me, was severely disabled and he was nonverbal and just a whole myriad of stuff going on with them and his I believe it was his mother but caretaker of some type used to have to come in and vacuum out is feeding to their like a couple of times a day. A man that just looks so uncomfortable. And this woman used to come in, and she would sing this song, you’re my sunshine to this young man. And he used to smile. used smile at her, and he used to like, laugh and COO of his stuff. And I remember even at 13 Looking over at him, and I’m like, man, if that kid could smile through all that, what am I bitching about? Right? So like, one of the big phrases that I use a lot to kind of keep my ship afloat is compared to what? 


Brett Bartholomew  1:05:47  



Matt Marcinek  1:05:48  

right. So like, when I feel horrible, Or angry about something? No. It’s, a good practice, for me to be angry, but then step aside and just have those three words pop into my head, compared to what? Like, you could be everything that neurologist said that you weren’t going to be. And you could be in a facility. And none of this could have been possible. And, that little like, yourself. moment where, like, you’re snap back to reality. Real quick,


Brett Bartholomew  1:06:30  

Mom’s spaghetti, man.


Matt Marcinek  1:06:33  

and you’re like, Okay, I get it, I get it. Like, that might have sucked. But it could always be worse. it can, like things couldn’t work out the way that they have, like, just let it go kind of adapt to it, roll with it. No, and see what happens and then move on. So, no, I know, especially in the strength to conditioning, gym coaching, business, like a lot of things. You know, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of ups and downs. And, a lot of things that seem like most tragic things in the world, but honestly, like, just ask yourself, like, compared to what, like, did you still get to see your son today? Did he still smile at you know, the sun still shines? Just got a food on your table? If you did great, you’re doing pretty good. Everything else?  it’s working. It’ll, fix itself.


Brett Bartholomew  1:07:35  

Yep, I can’t man, there’s no better way to wrap things up. And, I can’t thank you enough for being able to come on and share so many. Yeah, and get so tactical with these things. You know, I’ve heard you and I’ve had separate conversations about, you know, things that you’ve gone through an experience, I mean, even situations where people, despite your skill set and your knowledge, don’t even give you the time of the day, because they just want the easy way out to not have to deal with, the fact that you’re in a wheelchair and all these things, which is just ridiculous. And I just think that now is the most one of the most important times to get this out when we’re having so many important social discussions, bullshit like that can’t continue, man, hey,. and we feel blessed to have you as a part of the art of coaching family, we love you, we appreciate you. And I want to give you the last word, if people can support you in any way and your work,  is there a place we’ll of course spell it out for everybody in the show notes and everything. But Where do you prefer? Everybody reaches out to you? How do you prefer they connect with you?


Matt Marcinek  1:08:36  

Our website is I’m on I have two pages on Instagram, I just want to add my name, Matt Marcinek, and then the other one is @marcinek_peakperformance. And you can reach out there you can DM me on Facebook. You know, both of those the same thing on my Instagram. really approachable. Like, you know, don’t ever think that you’re bothering me. I might not get back to you right away all the time. But I always actually affect everyone. And I’m always willing to help. So hit me up. I’m always willing to have a conversation with someone.


Brett Bartholomew  1:09:24  

love it. Guys, I appreciate you tuning into such an impactful episode. And I hope you share this with a lot of folks in your network. There are so many people that need to learn how to communicate more intelligently more broadly. I’m always I’m one of them as well. And you know these messages don’t go anywhere without an audience. So I know your lives are busy, Matt and I appreciate that you have a million things and pulls on your time. But really it’s very easy whether you’re in Apple podcasts, Spotify, my website, any other podcasting, it’s really easy to just hit that share button and send it to five or six people and say hey, this made difference in my day, check it out and we’d appreciate you doing so Matt. Thank you again for your time man. We hope to see you at an apprenticeship soon. And yeah, until next time, guys, this is the art of coaching podcast. Brett Bartholomew signing off

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