Hey everyone! Welcome back to another edition of the podcast. Before we get into today’s episode, I just wanted to remind everyone that a lot of these episodes were recorded before the COVID-19 outbreak. I wanted to let you know this to eliminate any confusion you may have based on the context of our conversations. Please have this perspective when listening. Thank you!
Today, I am honored to be joined Angelo Sisco. Angelo is a phenomenal human being and I think after listening to today’s episode, you are going to love him.
Angelo is the owner of O’Hare Crossfit in Chicago, IL. Towards the start of his fitness journey, Angelo dedicated himself to losing weight. He went on to lose 100 lbs in 7 months with CrossFit and proper nutrition. During this time, he found a passion for motivating others to pursue their fitness goals, and aspired to become a trainer. He quickly found that the environment of the hard-sell and peddling supplements was not the approach he wanted to take, but instead, wanted to provide a valuable, sustainable service — in the same way that he worked toward his personal fitness goals. Fast forward, and today he is proud to call O’Hare CrossFit his home.
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TRANSCRIPTION
Brett Bartholomew 0:04
Welcome back everybody I’m here with my friend Angelo Cisco. Angelo what’s good man?
Angelo Sisco 0:08
Oh, so much is good even being on your podcast with you today’s good my friend
Brett Bartholomew 0:16
Angelo is like if you want to envision Angelo, you got to think of like, I don’t know, when I was younger Angelo my parents always dragged me to A Christmas Carol. Like we had to go see that play every year. And you know, there was this part where he met Scrooge met the Ghost of Christmas Present. And he’s always like, the most joyful, like, just loves to eat food. And he’s dropping wine everywhere, right? He’s just that jovial, jolly and like that is your attitude to a tee Dude, you’re the you’re the Ghost of Christmas Present in performance and fitness. So how’s that for a title? First and foremost?
Angelo Sisco 0:51
Brett, you know, it feels so good for you to see me how I want to be seen. No, I’m serious. You know what I mean? Like, you know, this is how you would, if I wasn’t here, and you were talking about me at a party like I would be overjoyed for you to describe me that way. I am a very appreciative
Brett Bartholomew 1:11
No. And that’s the first way I do it. I mean, guys, to give you a more formal introduction to Angelo, here’s a big part of this show is right, talking about tough stuff and management, leadership, all these things that is often swept under the rug. And within that I you know, I always say talent needs trauma. Well, like on October 15 2002, Angelo was involved in a hit and run motorcycle accident that changed his life forever. This was something that I remember, we connected on just with my hospital experience and some things that make him the way he is. And I think it’s important you guys know this before we launch in.
And you know, in an instant, this dude went from like a 20 year old entrepreneur to somebody that had to learn how to fight to save his leg and his life. He had eight surgeries, spent two months in a hospital bed, five months of daily rehab, and just dealing with doctors and all these things. And like me, when I was a teenager, he fell into a depression in 2009 and Angelo feel free to correct me after we’re done here if any of this is wrong, but he discovered CrossFit and everything kind of changed. He had new focus, new purpose, you know, lost a bunch of weight, kind of, you know, really launched into that lifestyle. And we’re going to talk about some contentious parts of CrossFit guys here too, so stay tuned on that.
But in 2010, he ended up opening O’Hair, CrossFit and CrossFit Harwood heights in 2015. Since then, he’s worked with over 400 affiliates worldwide, which coincides with the theme of this podcast being management leadership and coaching he’s co founded his own nutrition company speaks internationally Angelo has done a lot guys but here’s the important thing I want you to know and why intro to him in the casual way I did first is one thing I can say as somebody that’s going out on my own and how to manage people lead people is like positivity like genuine positivity not like this leadership book, you know, self help bullshit.
Like genuine positivity is so underrated when you meet people in a world right now that is increasingly just woe is me learned helplessness, Angelo, how much of that your experience in that hospital your experience with the motorcycle, your experience running businesses? Like how much of that has led to that? And then what’s that fight them like? Because I want to start off on that side of it. Because so many people fake and feign positivity. But dude, you’re genuinely fucking pumped all the time. And you got a lot of stuff to deal with.
Angelo Sisco 3:28
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so thank you for that intro in the bio that’s, that’s so crazy to hear it all put together like that at times, because it seems so not long ago, but it’s really been more than half my life. But anyways, for me, Brett this for to keep a very positive outlook and trying to live in what I would call an abundance state is a practice that I work on multiple times a day. I almost feel like if there’s like training for mindfulness, I put time into it, I do different breathing stuff, I know that you’re privy to a lot of like XPT and layered stuff, and I’m really big on on taking little breaks, making sure I’m gonna be at in a place where I’m living abundantly.
And I was really thinking about this podcast, and this would come up and I wanted to take a second to define what I think abundance is, and then that way too, everyone could get on the same page with what I’m really after. And so I’ve asked a lot of people what they believe abundance is and for a lot of people, that first thing that they say is a lot of things or a lot so if you have a lot of money, you’re living abundantly according to them. But I’ve done a really like deep thinking about this and I’ve really narrowed down the feeling of abundance because if I could feel what abundance feels like no matter what is going on with my day, I could connect back to that feeling. And for me abundance feels like when you don’t have any worries when you are just completely carefree and everything is just eliminated as far as fear and worry, that’s what abundance to me really is
It’s not a lot of money, you want a lot of money, because you want to eliminate your worries about money. And so I just really do my best to keep connecting to that. And remember that every situation that I’m trying to get in, like I said to you, before we got on, I want to leave it better than I found it. So I’m trying to live in this abundance state because no matter what is going on, whether you want to say it’s good or bad, I want to approach it from that place where my mind is free. And I’m not worried because when I make decisions for my business, when I’m in that worried state, I make short sighted decisions. And then when I go home after those short sighted decisions, I bring home a man that isn’t living in the place that his family deserves to be in. And so I’m just kind of in a big, it’s my biggest focus, right? Because I think everything else, I’m gonna figure out.
Brett Bartholomew 5:52
Yeah, no, and I think that makes sense. I mean, listen, you’re talking essentially about state management, right, like, being able to kind of put yourself in a certain frame that you’re, I don’t know, in the right kind of position to handle what’s necessary at the time. And, like, I’m a big history buff, and I don’t mean to wax philosophic here for a moment. But I was going through some old books the other night, and, you know, I’d came across, you know, just as one that talks about, like Confucius and all those things, and I know how, like trite that is, right? Like, I’m gonna give a quote from Confucius.
But the point being, it just coincided so well with what you said. And I’m just gonna paraphrase this briefly. But he’s like, the wise man of antiquity, when they wish to make the whole world a more peaceful and happy place. They have to put their own state in a proper order before regulating their families, they regulate themselves before regulating themselves, they try to be sincere through their thoughts. And I think that, again, that’s sincere through their thoughts is the biggest difference with you, man, because I hate and my listeners know, this, I hate the FFO. Everybody should be happy wake up every day, and just and say what you’re grateful, I get that that’s well intentioned, right? I just don’t know that. It’s always authentic for people, like, you know, I absolutely take the time to, you know, be grateful for things and you know, all that. But like, I just feel like everybody’s kind of, I don’t know, kind of homogenized this stuff.
And they’re kind of saying they’re doing things or not really, everybody does this shit in their own way, man. And that’s what that’s what’s different about you is like, you don’t come across as this productivity morning checklist person, you may have that stuff. But like, it’s just genuinely done in your own way. It’s not like you’re trying to state to the world, hey, I’m better than you. Because I take five minutes to journal and I do this shit. You know, like, do you run across that? I mean, you got to know what I’m talking about to a degree, you know, people that promulgate that kind of image. Right?
Angelo Sisco 7:36
Yeah. You know, a lot of times when you see people really missing the mark, it’s when they need, you know, when you’re really doing this stuff. Well, you know, there’s no scoreboards, in mindfulness, like you know, I mean, like in the idea of keeping a mindful state. And so for me, it’s just, everyone is gonna respond and do like their routine and find out what’s really best for them. And I will tell you guys the truth, I like novelty, every 60 to 90 days, I like to change up what probably would be my routine, because I like to relearn new things and kind of wake myself up, I if you do the same thing all the time, I know that it becomes a habit. But sometimes you need the change of novelty, to reframe, and re fire up your brain.
So I think it’s just we’re all on we should all be on, especially if you’re a leader and you are doing any sort of leadership. And that means a parent or anything, we should all be on some path where we are doing things to put ourselves in the best position to handle what is what any coming up in our life, which would maybe be like a form of stress, we need to be in the best position to handle that. It’s just like, a preparation like you would if you were running a marathon, you would train for that? Well, in our life. The thing that we’re training for is really how well can we manage stress and stay calm and keep our mind right and if you need to go run to do that, go do it. If you want to journal go do that. But it’s everyone’s gonna find their own things. And I think this will evolve over time.
Brett Bartholomew 9:00
Now with that, like talking about how you deal with those states and everything, how much of that Angelo and it’s cool if we disagree on this, this is something that I’ve changed, or probably not changed, but been more open about recently, just because I kind of, you know, transparently, I want to put some thoughts out there, like, you know, I’m a big believer that sometimes the The upside is your dark side. I think that sometimes if you wake up and you’re kind of, you know, the day you just kind of feel off or you know, everybody gets kind of melancholy sometimes or maybe you’re anxious, whatever the emotion is, that like you, it’s not always beneficial to try to like talk yourself out of that sometimes you just gotta feel it.
You know, sometimes you got to welcome different states in your life and realize kind of like, Alright, how can I leverage this for example, right? Like, sometimes when I get in confrontations with people and I get angry, I’m able to channel that anger into focus. Now if I sit there and just quote unquote, meditate my anger away. I may be in a like a peaceful state now, but I haven’t redirected that energy. And so my point is, is I think that like, you know, There’s been times where I woke up, and I just wasn’t feeling something. And I ended up writing something that resonated with a lot of people, because you know what a lot of other people felt that way too.
And then, you know, I did something else where maybe a little bit of a chip on my shoulder came through or whatever, and it resonated with people. My point is, is sometimes sharing the negative, or what is deemed, through society as a negative emotion, and being open about that, I think, is really valuable. And like, you just got to accept that and not try to like, I don’t know, treat it like it’s some kind of sickness, I just think that that’s mental illness is so huge right now. And I think part of that is influenced by, you know, the fact that people are pretending to be things that they’re not, and they’re trying to run away from some emotions, they are confronting, like you’ve dealt with depression, you know, like, don’t you feel like that actually added something to your life? Whether it was perspective, or just empathy or compassion? Like, would you be who you were today if you hadn’t gone through that depression? Do you think?
Angelo Sisco 10:55
Okay, I want to attach on something you said, because you brought up something really interesting. And maybe I wasn’t clear about this. And even for the listeners to get this clear, I am not saying that the goal of life is to not have any quote unquote, or what needed may be described as negative emotions. The truth of the matter is, the negative emotions are your greatest teachers, just like when you hear anyone play a sport, they usually lose, when they lose, they learn the biggest lessons. And so I am just saying that we should be able to take these negative emotions and use them in a constructive way
I am by no means saying that we should not be feeling them. Because the truth is, is this, whatever your negative emotion is the part usually we’re in your life you are probably running away from and not facing. Because that’s what that is, it’s a signal that you are avoiding something or you didn’t have the right conversation yet, or all that stuff. And that’s why you feel that way. And so those are your lessons, man. That’s really the goal. Because if you’re trying to really, you know, be better than negative stuff is how you get better.
Brett Bartholomew 12:02
Yeah. And I think that came through, you know, I just think that this was something that like, again, can I do you and I didn’t know each other from Adam, right? You had me out. I think this was before I launched my online course Bought In, you had me come out to speak. And we talked about just different drives and states and it was something you’re clearly interested in. And I find that people that tend to be more interested in psychology, and I know this could be a gross overgeneralization. This is just my experience, are people that have had some interesting experiences in their life, right.
That’s why I say talent needs trauma, because you’ve got to go through shit to be more introspective. Like if somebody asked me, What makes a great coach, excuse me, I always say self awareness and adaptability. First and foremost, right? Like, of course, communication is a part of that. But you can’t communicate if you’re not first self aware, and you don’t know how to adapt or improvise on the spot. And that’s why I’m curious of like, you know, you’ve clearly gravitated with owning your business and doing these things. Like you’ve always had a lot of accountability. Like did any of that come? Or was any of that forged through your own personal hardship? Like you had to have some kind of real conversation with yourself when you’re going through depression? Like, how do you get out of that shit?
Angelo Sisco 13:08
Yeah.Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. So, when I was a young boy, my father was in prison from when I was five till I was 16 years old. So kindergarten, till I had a license. So it’s a very large gap. And when I was a young boy around 10, and 12 years old, my father, one of the things that he wanted me to learn was work ethic. So he told me at a very young age that I had, I needed to go get a job, so I could support myself. And so I did, and I wound up getting a job at a deli in my neighborhood, and there was a man that owned this deli, and through conversation, he found out that that my father was in prison, and he took and then he came to find out that his father was in prison, you could just laugh at the area that I come from
But either way he he found out that and I found out that him and he took a really big liking to me and when I was working for him, I he asked me to one day, like mop around the fridge, I mean, mopped the floor and instead of like wheeling out the fridge, I just mopped around it like kind of you know, just half assing to get through it. And he saw me and he grabbed me and you know, he grabbed me really aggressively really hard like snapped me out of this and you know, he made it a real big point that whatever I do in life, even if I wind up cleaning toilets, the rest of my life that it’s up to me to take pride in my work and that was like the first like big like shift that I can remember in like what you would probably call like building discipline and work ethic for me.
Brett Bartholomew 14:49
Yeah, yeah. No, no keep going. I can’t imagine just trying to process that right like, I know you had told me in the past your father had gone to prison, all that I mean, like, this is real shit right? Like you dealt with depression motorcycle accident, your father went to prison like you didn’t have, like, his kind of guidance from what I remember, wasn’t the traditional arm around the shoulder, you can do it Jimmy kind of stuff, right? Like, he thrust a lot on you.
Angelo Sisco 15:12
Totally. And, man, it was a lot at that time. And even, you know, I’m sure it would be a lot if you know anybody saved but I started working really hard. And I took a lot of pride in my work. And I felt like work. And like creating something and being done with it. And like taking pride in it was something that I really identified with and then, you know, my years past, I had some other businesses, I got that motorcycle accident and I got up to 300 pounds. So I was, you know, I was in my mid 20s, I had a business that sold pizza to drunks outside of bars and clubs in the city of Chicago. It was, yeah, it was Oh man. And we just made it up one day. And then I wound up getting employees and trucks. And it was a great time.
And so I around that time I started like looking at my body and I was really unhappy with being overweight, my father was mad just to just jump back to this. My father when he went to prison was 400 pounds, and he lost 200 pounds when he was in prison. And so I grew up in a household that it was very taboo to be overweight, because my father grew up overweight. And that was a big source of his trauma, and also a big source of his anger. And so I was overweight, even though I had this little business going, I really didn’t know like what I was gonna really do or be with my life. Right? And, you know, I stumbled through Jim Jones on the CrossFit and I’m like, What’s this stuff? And, and in 2009, New Year’s resolution gone, you know, just with extra pep on it, I guess you could say do January 5, I started it, and I cried, I cried walking home man, I could only do like three burpees in a minute. I was like exhausted.
It was so bad. And I cried. And you know, for me at that moment to Brett CrossFit to me is I think what most people would think about if they know the story of Excalibur and King Arthur, it was the thing that gave me my strength and becoming a man. And like, I knew that I was gonna go back there and I lost that weight. And I was just like, engulfed in this new world that I had this thing that I was doing that at the time, no one really knew what I was doing. But I was just feeling all these amazing changes, right? You know, for the first time I’m training at a really high intensity in my life, right? Not to mention what that feels like chemically. In your mid 20s. You feel like a million dollars, right?
And I just lost all the weight. And I just started training people for free because I thought it was fun because the other business which is funding my life, and I would just spend all of my days researching and learning and figuring things out and trying to find out who is this guy and find out who’s that guy. And I just had I had all the time to do it. And it was July and I was like man, why can’t I make this my life? Why can’t this be what I do. And I started training people at a park and then I rented a racquetball court space from September of Oh, nine till November 2010. And then the gym will be nine years, next month.
Brett Bartholomew 18:14
It’s an incredible like with that, you know, and you talked about CrossFit and how transformational that is. I do have to ask you something. And, and you know where I’m coming out with this. We’re friends, right? But like, you know, like, hard conversations are also important with like, CrossFit is, as you know, that can be extremely contentious. Now it’s ironic, right? Because your crowd really doesn’t know that much about me, right? Like we went on when I went there people are like, Who the hell’s this guy? He’s trained pro athletes who gives a shit. You know, on the other end my crowd like strengthing conditioning, Jared looks at CrossFit. And it’s changed. But I mean that, you know, the past people were like, Oh, welcome, CrossFit.
Now it’s like I think people acknowledge it’s done some great things. It’s brought like platforms and good old fashioned barbell training back to many, you know, quote, unquote, lifestyle health clubs, kids have gotten involved in more multidisciplinary aspects of it. Now, there’s still the places as you know, unfortunately, that are like, Hey, you’re gonna do 1000 burpees in five minutes, you know, and crap like that. But with that, and all that aside, I have to ask you this. How do you feel about the way CrossFit just like almost kind of came onto the scene or communicated its message and has taken at times some absolute stances? You know, how has that impacted how you view like, you know, how you kind of brand your gym and how you talk to other people about it. Would you mind talking about that a little bit,
Angelo Sisco 19:31
Man, this is a great, great topic and I’m so excited that you asked me this on this particular time or day in my life. Okay, so I have always and I have looked at CrossFit for what it’s does well and also looked at CrossFit for what it doesn’t do well, and one of the things that I have been able to do and I have done is my gym, even though it’s called O’Hair CrossFit 70% of the community have no idea who Half the big time CrossFitters are and what I mean by that is like, I get people come to my gym and it becomes like our little community and enter that community. I have written different programming anyway, they just think it’s CrossFit. And they just want to
Brett Bartholomew 20:19
Explain that a little bit. Sorry,
Angelo Sisco 20:20
just Sure. So yeah, so no, no problem, no problem. So, you know, I have two groups going on in my classes today. One group is if they’ve passed a certain assessment score, and it’s really aligned with their goals, they will snatch, but another group is doing single leg, hip bridges, bottoms up, presses and carries inside plank reach news. And so what I’ve done is I’ve taken the best stuff of CrossFit, what’s CrossFit done? One, it’s allowed an entrepreneur like myself to start a business with no money two, I’ve been able to help a lot of people that probably would not have exposure to a lot of these movements, three, group base fitness, pretty much before CrossFit, you were looked at kind of frowned upon if you were a guy in a group class.
And so it’s spread so many amazing things. A lot of doorman sports like powerlifting sorry, powerlifting. You know, weightlifting, when’s the last time you saw people really excited about weightlifting? Before CrossFit, I thought that they were gonna shut that sport down. You know what I mean? And so it’s brought in this amazing, amazing awareness. And along the way of this amazing awareness, it’s brought in everything, and I explained it to people that it’s like breaking, you know how, like, in the movie Scarface when they opened the gates for Cuba. Well, some people will be Tony Montana’s and do bad things. And there will be some Cubans that come here, and they will be amazing. And that’s just the up and downside of when you like CrossFit has done is really relinquished a lot of control, or have had very aggressive stance on things like it’s just part of this whole like chaotic thing that Greg Glassman has created.
And so I just look at it as this is group based fitness, I’m able to help people do this, we train at some intensity, some days, we don’t do it, like the people that are really doing this, well are starting to get this and I will tell you the truth that a month ago, I completely came up with an entire new vision of my gym, and I am rebranding because I am not 100% aligned with a lot of the other things that CrossFit does and represents, whether that be fighting with Coca Cola, or doing a lot of these things. And so I’m completely moving away from them. And the time and the best thing I could say is, you know, when I first started out in my business, I thought CrossFit was the solution. And just like everybody, and over time I have evolved, not everybody, I hopefully everybody, I have evolved, and I believe that there’s different and better solutions out there will it will it have a CrossFit like field because it’s a group based fitness class? Sure if that’s what people want to call it, will people be using rowers and bikes? Yeah, sure.
But people won’t be using the bars as much. And I’m just going to change it up a little bit and give people what they want and not get things mixed up between CrossFit because I think it’s also created a world where people are losing touch with what exercise is like, if you’re a professional athlete, you need to train for your sport. But if you’re a lifestyle athlete, you’re training so you could feel good and for your life. And I think what it does CrossFit and a lot of these extreme training programs has done is it’s created an abusive relationship with people with exercise. In the lifestyle category, what I mean by that is, just because you eat donuts on Saturday night, doesn’t mean you have to wake up tomorrow and work out really hard. That’s like a punishment. So you’ve taken something that is absolutely amazing, like having a physical practice to train you for your life. And you use it as like a, you know, an abusive part of your life like punishment. And so that’s where I’ve really started and really, and you know, I know, it’s a long winded answer evolved into, and that is why I’m moving forward to because I’ve been able to evolve to my own concepts.
Brett Bartholomew 23:54
No, it’s a phenomenal answer. And I liked what you said, it’s funny, I got I got crushed by some random on Instagram the other day, because I had made a post just like saying, Hey, if you’re solely training for aesthetic reasons, you know, you’re not on the right boat. This relates to what you were saying about the eating donuts, and everybody’s attitude to that, right. And because the post was generally about, hey, like, my training has changed over the years, sometimes you got to get it in where you can fit it in, like I used to be in in the past, like, unless I could get all my heavy lifts in unless I could get more than an hour like I wouldn’t train just because I was like I’m training perfectionist, and I still battle that.
You know, but I said, you know, you’ve got to train for a bigger purpose, and there’s got to be continuity, and it can’t just be for aesthetics. And this person was like, Why can’t you know what’s wrong with just training for aesthetics? And I’m like, listen, dude, like if you’re, if that’s, they should be, that should be a byproduct of a good training plan. But if you just train for aesthetics, you don’t have a well rounded training plan. There’s plenty of people that look good and don’t perform well and don’t have a foundation of health. So you’re right. It’s an interesting culture
Now I want to summarize for our audience because you give a thorough answer. You’re right when it comes to Cross Fit, there’s good and there’s bad. Guess what, like everything else in the world, you invent the airplane, you simultaneously invent the airplane crash, you invent the ship, you simultaneously invent the ship wreck, you know, you invent some of the amazing technology we have today, you simultaneously invite, you know, privacy leaks and data corruption and all this stuff. And I think people just they get caught not thinking big enough, right? They look at something. And they think, Oh, this is what that is. And I’ve talked about it in my course it you saw it in the presentation, we’ve talked about on this fundamental attribution error, we see something, it sits primal in our brain. And even if we do certain things like that in our life, we like we don’t hold ourselves accountable for it. But we’ll cast aspersions on whatever that thing is.
Now, I’m glad you also admit, CrossFit has done some dumb shit in the past, right? It’s sent out some bad messages. But again, so is strength and conditioning. So has the financial industry. Like I think about what you said with rebranding. I’m about to go speak for Wells Fargo. And one of the things they said is, we have got to integrate and kind of reshare a different, we’ve got to share a different message because they’ve had some scrutiny and things that they’ve done in the past few years. This shit is everywhere. What I want to know just being a nerd for communication is where do you start with the rebranding? Angelo, like when you know that there’s this problem? And now you’ve got to tell your staff, hey, we’re moving in this direction. Can you kind of walk us through some of your thoughts on rebranding and getting a new message out?
Angelo Sisco 26:29
Yeah, for sure. Man I’m in I am like, right now like knees deep, and you know, doing this rebrand. So I’ll give you what my experience is. So the first thing that I did is I was I thought of what that I wanted to do a concept, okay. And I started thinking about the concept. And then the what I want to change in group based fitness is making it more you know, breathing based, making sure that people are healthy. It just, I am thinking about what problem do I really want to solve and right and right now in my life, the problem that I’m personally trying to solve for myself, and I think a lot of people need help with is just being better people and managing stress better.
And so I first started that, okay, so this is what I’m going to solve, I’m going to help people reduce stress and feel better and have their bodies be pain free. That is like where I’m at right now in my training, and it’s where I want to help people, I think that you should be able to do all the basic stuff, you should be able to squat, lunge, hinge, push, pull, and then you should carry something, doesn’t matter how heavy it is, but you should be able to do it pain free. And I am very passionate about that. Because I feel like, if you don’t have part of access to your life, you’re basically your body’s just enslaved. And so I’m was thinking about this, how passionate I am about this. And the problem for me, Brett is CrossFit doesn’t sound like a gym that does that.
And so what was happening? Why? Because the because what has happened is 20,000 Other people have taken a crack at opening CrossFit affiliates. And the challenge is, is that John down the block doesn’t know the difference between O’Hare across it, and Jimmy’s crossed it around the corner until he actually comes in and does it and experiences it. Because the name doesn’t give enough credit to the type of work that I have done or another gym owner has done just doesn’t do it because it’s an affiliate model.
Brett Bartholomew 28:26
Yeah, no. I mean, I listen like we face that in streaming condition. I think I’ve said this before when I go speak for some of these corporate events. I think they expect me to be some rah rah shout him up muscle bound, dude. And I know as much because they’ve said that they’re just like, oh, like it’s just weird, right? Like different professions in our field in general, whether it’s training, conditioning, fitness, whatever, we brand ourselves pretty unprofessionally. And then we expect to the general public or greater media or whatever, to understand the difference. And it’s like, huh, yeah, no, we were very small subset of the population. We come across very strong willed and sometimes not always is open. And we don’t really brand ourselves well.
And that’s part of communicating a clear message, right? Like, it’s just like teaching somebody Angelo, you haven’t taught somebody until they’ve actually learned it and then can teach it in turn. Why would we expect John down the street or Susie, or, you know, an organization to understand the difference? If we’ve shied away from really building strong strategies of marketing and communicating the difference as opposed to being oh, we’re better oh, this person did this or it’s just always accolades and bravado as opposed to leading with values you can’t lead with vanity when you’re doing that shit, right?
Angelo Sisco 29:34
Totally man. And you know. I’m so so excited about like this idea of rebranding and really having a really clear message and just attracting the people Brett that just hear this message, and it just sounds like sweet music to and it’s repelling the people that aren’t ready or don’t feel like this music is further it’s like I’m, I feel like that’s another thing about CrossFit that I just don’t want to do is I want it to be so specific one What I’m trying to do and how I’m trying to do it, that the name of the business has to be specifically mine, because I don’t want anything to interfere with the branding or message that I’m trying to create. ,
Brett Bartholomew 30:10
Yeah no, that makes sense. So like, walk me through this, right? Like, let’s say, and you’ve started, you’ve done a great job. But let’s say I’m a member of your staff, because there’s people listening right now that owned businesses, whatever it is, they might own a dentist office, they might own whatever, and let’s say they’re really all in on the shit you’ve been doing. Right? They love it, they don’t really feel like there’s a problem, or maybe half do and half don’t. But you’re sitting in front of us and saying, Hey, guys, this is what we’re doing. Now, this is kind of how we’re gonna lead. And I know, we can all kind of start with why yada, yada, yada, but sell me on this talk to me as if I’m a member of your staff. I mean, you’re off to roleplay it right? I’m just saying like, give some tips, maybe two to three of how you even can, like, initiate that conversation so that you don’t lose. I don’t know buy in from your employees. And and everybody’s clear on the mission.
Angelo Sisco 30:54
Yeah, great. Okay, so you know, I am, you know, I have been around my job right now, let me just have to take a step back, because this will help lead everything like this. My job right now is not to, I don’t really do. I wouldn’t say I don’t do anything, but like anything you could really do with your hands and see my job right now at O’Hare, CrossFit. I do coach a little bit, don’t get me wrong. But as far as the people that work for me, I am just 1,000% focused on them being the best people ever. And that is like the first thing that I introduced to them. And we work on this. And like, I have meetings where we do breathing exercises together.
And we talk about what’s going on. And we have you know, I’m very big on this open communication and doing that. And so when I brought this idea to my team, I openly said that if they right now in their heart of hearts, they think that CrossFit is the best solution for people to transform their lifestyle and live a healthier life. I’m just saying it’s the best or the only one available. And they all looked at me. And they all knew that that wasn’t true. And I said, Well, do you guys all want to create one that is and they all loved it. And they’d love that we’re a part of creating something new together. And it’s going to be, it has more opportunity for them and has more ability to make it more of their own.
And man, they they’ve been a very big fan of this, my friend and all the meetings that we’ve had, and all the planning and all the test runs of the classes that they’re doing, just to see how the time works. You know, we’re only doing it with like a couple people here and there. They they really have jumped into this because it’s where they’re at. It’s what they what they really believe. And yeah, I’m a very like, Brad, how I am with you is how I am with everybody. So my dream is really
Brett Bartholomew 32:56
I mean, it sounds like you just got you have people that they’re with you. Right, like, I guess and that’s good. I guess what I’m thinking and and this is just for the benefit of the listeners. And it’s just a good exercise. I think folks like you and me go through as well is let’s imagine people weren’t on board could you know, like, there’s going to be situations where it’s like, Hey, we’re going to institute some changes X, Y, and Zed. Here’s why, you know, yadda yadda yadda. Let’s imagine just for shits and giggles, that they’re like, No, I like what we’re doing. I’m actually on board with this other.
Now the easy route right Angelo’s for somebody to be like, well, like, they’re not a fit, get them off your team. But I think that like managers and leaders lean on that shit too much. You know what I mean? Like, and there’s a fine line between you don’t want to have to convert the unconverted. But like, are there certain things you would do if you sensed a little bit of hesitancy or a little bit of you know, bite back from that? Like, do you isolate that person and chat with them more? One on one? Where do you you start with that in that manufactured scenario?
Angelo Sisco 33:53
Perfect if it’s in a group setting, and I’m really, really good and need a lot more information, I just say, Hey, listen, I hear what you’re saying. And I want to give you my attention, because there’s a lot I need to know, before, you know, so we could talk more about it. Because you obviously since you have a stance, I’d love to learn more about how you got it. Can we set up a time and talk individually? Because for me too Brett, you know, people may say no, because their wife was mad at them last night. You know what I mean? Like you never know, really?
And so for me to create a safer place where people may even, you know, to have the chance to say that stuff. I try to do all that stuff one on one. I know that a lot of times it’s easier to do it all with the team but man you you know, you got to really get to the inner inner workings of the people that worked for you. Like I said, like that’s what I am concerned with is the quality of these people’s lives and how they’re treating themselves and how they’re doing because if they’re doing that, of course, they’re going to be open to the better idea if you can explain it to them logically enough, like, you know what I mean? What good person would go? Oh my god, wait, there’s no no way there’s nothing better, no chance, you know what I mean? No one would think like way.
Brett Bartholomew 35:11
Unfortunately, you know, there are some people that are like that. But there’s also some managers that like I find this right. And I get this a lot on I use social media primarily for social listening, it’s interesting to learn what people are struggling with, and then kind of chatting with them about how they approach it. And you know, I get the same thing a lot is like, hey, how do I get buy in with sport coaches, or parents or this? Now like, I always tell them, I’m like, hey, my book, like, is ubiquitous, like it doesn’t matter. Like if it’s for the, but it’s the same thing the book states is you got to research relate and reframe like, you’ve got to figure out where the core of that misunderstanding is and what the person’s values are.
And like you said, they might have said, No, because they got in a fight with their wife, or maybe they misinterpreted the message or, you know, any number of factors, right. That’s the research part of it. Relating is then like you sharing a little bit more information and insight and transparency, about you know, what you’re trying to achieve, or maybe the nature of it, or even yourself, so they know where you’re coming from at a deeper level. Just like for example, you with one of my assistants, I was just like, hey, I’m a fairly anxious person, I like I approach everything with urgency. Just know that if I communicate in a certain way, it’s never meant to seem damning, or or, you know, harsh, like I just, I’m trying to skip the fluff so we can make the biggest difference in the shortest amount of time. Right?
So that’s an example of relating now we built some common ground and there’s some expectation there. And then reframing means taking what you’ve learned from like, the person’s hesitancy, right, or maybe their dissent. And then you know, what you’ve kind of offered on the table and then trying to coalesce those two messages. And it’s hard, right, Angelo, because how many staff do you have, like key staff that you have to interact with daily?
Angelo Sisco 36:50
You know, with the different I manage a couple different of my company, so I have for, I would say around five people a day daily, like we are interacting heavily about either the gym or other other business, five or six people. Yeah.
Brett Bartholomew 37:07
So there’s opportunities there, right? There’s like you said, there’s always an opportunity to develop and refine more of what you do, right. And each of those people on staff are gonna have different, I don’t like the word triggers. That’s not what I’m looking for drives, right, learn, acquire, Bond, defend, everybody wants something a little bit different. And, you know, like, being able to get them to understand that, hey, change can be used as a tailwind. Not a headwind is hard, because you might have to say that message, Angelo, like five different ways, right?
Do you feel like you have to individualize that a little bit? Are there times were like, you know, you stated something that, you know, one group of employees will understand, but there’s another person that you’re like, oh, shit, I kind of got to explain that this way. Like, do you have to craft that? Or do you find that most of the time, you know, everybody, you can kind of just explain things one way, and they’re all good.
Angelo Sisco 37:59
I do my absolute best to make everything. I can make any procedure, but when it’s getting related or interpreted to someone, Brett, I try my best to do everything very individualized. And I know that that’s not always the most time efficient. But, you know, what we’re talking about here is good quality relationships. Yeah, that’s really it. And so, you know, why would it be different than how you got your wife, then how you do it at work? Not that like, obviously, the romancing and all that, but I’m just talking about you put time in, you figure things out. You threw away the scheduler, when she really needed something, or he needed something. And you do the same thing for your people. So they feel connected to you. That’s I mean, that’s how I live, you know, relationships are my currency. .
Brett Bartholomew 38:45
Yeah Well, I mean, and if people will take anything from this message, right? I always say like, communication, like good communication, comes down to really four things, right? And there’s a lot of this, we’re not talking about like, nonverbal and verbal and all that. But just in terms of how this is wielded. It comes down to consistency, frequency relative to the environment, authenticity, and then utility. And what I mean by utility is like, you know, some people say, Well, what about quality? Well, of course, quality communication matters. But there are plenty of great communicators who don’t give information that can actually be put into action.
Right? All of us have gone to clinics or presentations, we’re Damn, that person is a great orator, right? Like they make everything sound incredible. And then you walk away and you’re like, What the hell did they say? How do I put that into action? I think that was something that was clear about you, too. That made an indelible effect on me. You are very consistent, and you are very authentic, and most people think they’re being authentic Angelo. But they don’t realize that they’re kind of going into coach mode. And that goes back to state management where you talked about like, don’t get out of fucking coach mode, talk like a person, right like every now and then connect like a damn person, that’s not Dr. Phil, that just means be real with people, and you’ll get results would you agree?
Angelo Sisco 40:06
Oh, man, it’s the best, you know, it’s probably one of the things that took me the longest. In my management career, I would say were like, you know, managing people to really wrap my head around, because it kind of goes against sort of what most people would think is like an authoritarian, sorry. And then also to like, you know, when it comes down to having, like, if you have to fire someone or everything like that, and like, you have to keep this position. So you could do that. And I think that’s all just a real cop out, man, I just didn’t have the tools.
When I was younger, in my early 20s, late 20s, in my early 30s, to really understand that, like, you could have a really great conversation with someone, you could set really clear expectations and boundaries, you could hold them to them, and you don’t need to be a dick. And you could actually talk to them like they’re regular people. And that’s really important to me, I want to I tell a lot of people that work here is I want to come to the gym, and I want to feel like daddy.
And what I mean by that is I want when I come in the gym, I want like everyone, when you’re a little kid, you’re waiting by the window, excited to see daddy because you know that he’s going to make you feel great. And he’s ready to play with you. And I want to feel that way with my people. Because when they’re feeling great, and they’re electric, and they’re ready to be around, they’re better coaches, they’re better people. And that’s a ripple effect that I can’t even comprehend at this point. You know what I’m saying?
Brett Bartholomew 41:30
Yeah, I gotta be honest, though. When you said you want to feel like Daddy, I got the Vince Vaughn dodgeball kind of the wrong uniforms. Right? And they’re in there. And they’re on the Ojo and cotton’s like, and he’s like, Hey, I think I got the wrong one. And what are their names is Daddy. So hopefully you’re not doing that? No, you’re right, you have a positive association. And people understand that, you know, with a father figure or a traditional father figure, and that’s dangerous term, right? Because nobody really has, you didn’t have a traditional father many people don’t. But that general idea of a father is this is somebody that’s going to care for you and love you. But there’s also set clear consequences for certain things, right?
Like, I’m expecting my first child in December, I will love that kid with every ounce of me. But if he like if he messes up, which he will, he’s gonna know about it, you know, and that’s just listen, like, I may take heat from that I get asked all the time, like, Hey, will you spank your child? And I’m like, oh, boy, this is like asking people these days about religion, you know, or politics, but hell yeah, I’m gonna spank my kid. You know, I mean, if he acts up and does stuff like that, and that’s me, but like, you know, the other part of that is just like the duality of good leadership, right? Angelo like, there’s times where they’re gonna feel like that. Now, I imagine there’s also times you got to drop the hammer a little bit, ma’am.
You know, how do you approach disciplinary action? Or how do you ameliorate a situation? If somebody falls out of line with staff protocol? They didn’t do something. And it’s unintentional or intentional, right? Like you all that you delineate those two, like, in your example, but how do you tend to discipline? How do you tend to correct? How do you tend to kind of, you know, bring the hammer when you need to, if at all?
Angelo Sisco 43:05
Yeah no, there are times when you probably, you know, what we could say, I don’t know about bringing the hammer, but having potential high, emotional, conflicting, or conversations, anything along those lines, sure, I have to have those. And what I really tried to do is, I try to first help people understand that I am having this conversation, because I care about them. And this is by no means me attacking them. And the main reason I do that Brett, is because we were joking about this thing with the Daddy and all this stuff. But you really do when you when you bring someone in your office to have a conversation with them about work, they haven’t done really well. It really represents that like parent and child and kind of relationship or how they’ve had it at school.
And a lot of times, you don’t even know how people are really going to react to that. Because a lot of times when people hear any sort of negative feedback, the first thing that they think is that I’m worthless, and no one loves me. And so I do my best to say, I let them know the truth, like, Hey, I just want you to know that I really care about you. And I’m so glad that you’re a part of the team. And we’re going to need to address some of the blowout, you know, some of the things that have been going on with your role. Before we get into that. I want to know if there’s anything about your role that you may feel not clear about.
And I try to like understand, because, you know, sometimes, you know, people aren’t trying to mess up. And if they are I mean, that’s very few and far between, at least for me, you know, and so I’m trying first to figure out, if they’re not doing their job, what did I do wrong? What am I not doing? Did I not create a clear process? Is this not clear enough? You know what I mean? First I’m trying to find where I can take responsibility in the action. And then I talked with him about the action. And I have a three strike policy for any kind of boundaries and things like that. And I just bring it up to him. A matter of fact, way, hey, here’s the deal, this is something that’s really important to the company. And if this happens a couple more times, we’re gonna have to let you go.
And I say that in the most kindest way, and I let people know, like what’s happening in the fairway like, this is the game we’re playing. This is why your role is really important to the company. And this is why if you are not here, like my role is, Brett, if you make a mistake, that’s okay. But your job is to let someone on the team know that you made the mistake. Or if you didn’t get to do something, or you’re not performing your job really well, like I’m very big on open team communication. And if they’re doing something, they’re not aware of them that that’s my fault, because I didn’t teach them well enough. So it’s a really big balance.
And I just think if you’re just really straightforward with people, you set really clear boundaries, you let people know that you care about them. And that it’s important that they’re on this team, and you’re only telling them this stuff, because you want them and the company to be better. It sets a really great intention for whatever else you really want to say to them. But if they walk in, and you’re, you know, you got a red face, and you’re ready to just come down on them, because they’ve crossed a what you would imagine is a work boundary. But the truth is, it’s a personal boundary that you’re carrying, and you’re not giving credit to.
Brett Bartholomew 46:09
Yeah, I think what you touched on there, and again, if I’m hearing you correctly to a degree, and then I just want to kind of add some pieces to because I think, you know, this is one thing I value about our relationship is we can go deep on a lot of different things like, you know, you address this in, and this might not be the term you use, but just hear me out. You address kind of it a little bit like a negotiation. Now, negotiation is like, first, it’s information discovery, right. Negotiation isn’t about winning. When it’s done. Well, it’s about finding, figuring out information. And you said, Hey, is there something going on in your life? Is there ambiguity about your job role, and I can’t emphasize that gold tip enough for people like make sure you have clear job descriptions for your team?
How did them write out what they believe their job description is, you write out what it actually is and kind of manage that gap, right? Because there may just not be clarity. And I hope everybody hears that. But you do some fact finding, right? And then you start to address it in a way that like, Hey, here’s where I’m at, right? There’s transparency, there’s some level of disclosure, I want to know more about where there’s confusion and all these things. Because, you know, that’s an important piece.
Because when you think about attitudes, Angelo, like part of the research I’m doing in like behavior change talks about there’s three types of attitudes, there’s affective, so how one feels about what the research calls the target, but that would be the person right, like you’re trying to change. So if somebody did something incorrect, right, they’re affective state, or you’re a effective state, there’s the cognitive state. So that’s somebody’s, like, knowledge or beliefs or assumptions about the target, right, whether they’re actually doing something sneaky, and they tend to be that kind of person, or if it was, well intention. And then there’s like, you know, your behavioral attitude, that’s the predisposition to behave in a certain way.
So you have how you feel your knowledge about that person, and then how you actually behave. And if you don’t get that information, like you said, and you don’t let them lead, and then disclose that, you’re not going to be able to approach that in the right way. But so many people lead with emotions, they forget state management, they want to come in, and they want to flex and they want to say, Hey, this is how it is. And you can always do that canyon.
Angelo Sisco 48:17
You know, you man, you just can’t because the truth is, you know, and I know that you dig this, so I’m gonna chat about this. So like me, and you have talked about this before, to like the dark side of things and stuff like that, like that being like a strength. And we’ve talked about this. The thing about those things sometimes, though, is that anger and attitude will create things it really does, it’s an undeniable thing. But if you continue to use that after I would, I would say it’s like the initial launch, you will eventually just ruin your relationships and in a work against you, because it’s also a very taxing place to run your business and even run your life from and I was telling someone the other day, it’s like, to me anger and aggression is when you’re looking at a rocket about to go into orbit.
It’s the first rockets that fall, like you only need them for a little bit like and for most people, they need a little chip on their shoulder to get off their ass and, and take control of their life. But after you have that chip, you need to run on different things like love and appreciation of people and gratitude because those burn slower and burn better and they help you build something forever. And I just think you got to know where you’re at in your in your journey. I would have never opened the gym if I didn’t have somewhat of an attitude of who I wanted to be and what I wanted to create and do all that stuff. But I’m 35 years old now check the scoreboard guys, I did it. I have no reason to act like I still have something to prove.
Brett Bartholomew 49:54
Yeah, well and I think people just gotta remember it’s contextual. And that’s ultimately what that dark sided approach isand guys, if you’re confused there again, just make sure reread the chapter unconscious coaching about it, Bought in we talked about it more in depth. But this, we basically just talked about sometimes you have to be strategically Machiavellian, not in a way that’s House of Cards, ask but in a way that still drives a utilitarian outcome. The greatest leaders don’t always do things that are, quote, unquote, socially acceptable. And you see examples of that even with John Wooden with Nick Saban with Bella Check. Alex Ferguson, whoever.
We have this image of leadership in our world, or our culture, that it’s always got to be, you know, sing songy, warm, empathetic, here’s your lessons, everybody on with great culture, sometimes no, you gotta get your hands dirty. But there’s still a finesse. And that’s what Angelo’s talking about. So Angela, what else is on stage for this? rebranding? Right, like you’ve started the process. You know, you’re getting it rolling. Like if you had to think of rebranding and I don’t know, but three to five steps. And I know I’m putting you on the spot. What would those be? Metaphorically? Just if somebody else has a pen and paper during this same situation? They want to learn how you think about this process?
Angelo Sisco 51:05
What problem do I want to solve? Who is my ideal client? What is really their biggest problem that they want to solve? How am I the solution for it? And how am I going to get that message out there, whether that be delivering the service, or creating copy and marketing and stuff, those are like my, that’s where I’m at right now is refining all of those, to where it’s just perfect, how we want it to launch not like in a perfectionist kind of way, but just I’m in the points of refining all those things. Because I really, like I said earlier, I really want a brand that people get right away.
Brett Bartholomew 51:42
But what do you think it is about brands? And like, what does a brand have to have that makes it get right away? Like is it like metaphor, right? Like, I think brands do a really good job because I don’t want to hang out to dry. Like, there’s good research out there that talks about how metaphors really kind of scaffold or influence our reasoning, right? So and you see this a lot like a company may be like, it’s just like grandma used to make or your, you know, your home away from home, all these things. And what they say is like, you know, and we see it, like, pervading other kinds of discussions of social issues as well, like, people may say, crime is a virus.
You know, there’s so many different ways that people select metaphors. What do you think goes into making a sticky kind of brand? So right away, it’s like, Hey, guys, we’re moving away from this. And we’re moving to that one more example. Just to make sure I give you Hey, Art of coaching is teaching people more focusing on how to coach lead, manage change behaviors, whatever. Most other things in our field, just teach what to coach and people. Oh, okay, now I get a little bit more about art of coaching.
Angelo Sisco 52:51
Got it? Okay. So do you want me to just say like, what the name of the company is, and all this stuff? Like, what would it
Brett Bartholomew 52:57
I mean, act like people have no clue and because different levels of understanding dive in.
Angelo Sisco 53:04
Sure. Alpha Hippie Movement Lab, is the place where you get connected with your bodies in a physical practice, and fun way. And it’s gonna teach people how to have a really good relationship with their body, people are gonna be pain free, and people are gonna manage stress and be healthier and happier than they’ve ever been in their entire life.
Brett Bartholomew 53:25
Perfect. So you focused on the story you want to tell? Not a product you’re trying to sell? Bottom line, right? Like it’s a vehicle for them to find happiness and wellness. Am I correct in that?
Angelo Sisco 53:36
100%?
Brett Bartholomew 53:37
Right. So no, dude, thank you. And I just think like, this was a hard thing for me, man, because and this is why I think it’s an important discussion. And you’re doing a good job, like locking this in, like, I always find, if you can’t describe it in one paragraph, one sentence, one word in one image, you’re kind of screwed. And that’s really friggin hard. That’s really hard. We have somebody in my coalition group, which is like a monthly accountability group that we do coaches from all over trying to help each other solve unique problems. And one guy was like, Man, I’m really good at acquiring information and digesting it. He’s like, I’m not very good at teaching it to others. And I said, Well, how do you try to create and he goes, Well, why should I have to create? And he asked a great question. I said, Well, it’s simple man, like, you know, to teach others is to truly learn it, not just intake.
And that’s something I try to hold people accountable on my mediums. Like, I’ll have somebody watch a YouTube video and they’re like, Hey, do you do this? Is this a podcast too? And I’m like, Well, no, the podcast is different than than the YouTube YouTube is different than the courses like, guys you got to dive in. You got to put something in another medium, and try to explain it to different audiences before you really understand what it is because you’ll get all these different questions about it right like, and I really think skin in the game of like create. If you really want to learn something, create a course on it or do a presentation on it or go teach it to your wife or your husband, like go do something with it, where you can’t get clear
A last question I have for you with that in mind, what is your process for like, when you sat down you’re like, alright, rebranding process, like, where do you have an exercise? Or any kind of prompt? Or do you just kind of let it all flow? And then you go back and edit it?
Angelo Sisco 55:16
No, Brett, I have I hired someone to help me brother, you know, when I was first starting out my gym and doing all this stuff, I think I was really afraid to ask for help out of feeling like people would know that I didn’t know anything. And I have been so fortunate over these last nine years to make amazing relationships with people and I just surrendered and hired someone and I’m having them take me through all these branding questions and, you know, doing interviews with my clients and like all these things that I’m being taken through, because I just, I want this to be amazing. And I know that the first time I did it, I thought I had to do it myself. And so why not get some help. So that’s really where I’m at I’m, I really believe that asking for help eliminates friction and eliminating friction is the game. Yeah, because friction is, you know, whatever you want to call it, you know, but friction isn’t good.
Brett Bartholomew 56:08
No, it’s good. Like, you need a little bit to turn friction into traction. But you’re right, like that’s not the end goal. The end goal is to be able to get people on the level ground and make sure that we can all move forward. Listen you have given a lot and I probably put you under the hot lamp more than I have nearly any other guests and I love it. It’s why it’s unscripted. It’s why you are where you are. You didn’t miss a beat. There’s no doubt people are gonna get a ton of value for this. Angelo, like if they want to reach out to you or they have questions or they want to help you or they’re in the area and they want to visit your gym. What’s the primary way that you would like people to get in touch with you?
Angelo Sisco 56:43
For sure. Okay, so the name of my gym currently still is O’Hare CrossFit so you could find me through there and that’s in in Franklin Park just by the airport. I’m really open any kind of Instagram messages or direct messages that’s Angelo_Cisco. And if you want a glimpse of what this new movement is, you could check out the Alpha Hippie on Instagram I’m already been working on creating this identity of what the tribe that we’re looking to create it so you can get a little glimpse of it there.
Brett Bartholomew 57:13
Love it. man. I’m surprised Joe Rogan didn’t already trademark Alpha hippie I feel like that’s definitely that’s something that would sound like that’s an awesome name and it’s definitely sticky well, I’ll make sure these are all going to be linked in the show notes. These are all going to be easy to find guys remember when you reach out to any guests. Be respectful, right? These are people that just like you are very busy. Always lead with you know something genuine and make sure that you find ways to help them as well. Whether that’s reviewing the episode helping them kind of get a message out or whatever. Like don’t just take take take so Angelo has given you a lot of knowledge here. Please respect that, brother. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate any kind of final send off you want to say before we wrap up.
Angelo Sisco 57:55
Brett Bartholomew, it has been a pleasure being on the show. And I knew from when I heard you give probably what was the early infancy of conscious coaching talk at Exos when I was doing that damn path internship that you were doing special things and you were gonna make a big impact and it’s so amazing to have watched you grow these last probably seven years my friends so thank you for allowing me to be here with you.
Brett Bartholomew 58:20
No, man. It’s my honor. Thank you all right, we’ll talk soon guys again until next time, we appreciate you listening in. This has been the art of coaching podcast.