E27 | Stephanie Mock: Speaking The Same Language & Centralizing Your Staff - Art Of Coaching™

Posted August 4, 2019

TRANSCRIPT

Brett Bartholomew 0:00

Hey everyone on August 27, my online course Bought In is going to be reopening now what is Bought In, if you’ve read my book conscious coaching, if you followed some of my other work for a while, Bought In is that next step that goes even deeper into many of the topics that we discussed on the podcast, many of the topics discussed in my book conscious coaching, and every single one of them is relevant to a wide range of professions. I talked about this all the time, even though I use the term coach and athlete and my vocation, this is just as applicable as if you read a book by a Navy Seal, and you try to apply lessons or a manager of some other kind of business and you tried to apply lessons or a researcher and you try to apply lessons, the knowledge within the course is widely applicable, if you deal with people. Now, what’s the point of it, ultimately, guys, all of us are trying to get better outcomes out of people. And you can only do that if you have more trust, if you have more engagement. If you have more consistent effort, if you know how to speak their language, if you know how to speak the language of the individuals you’re trying to reach. And you understand a little bit more about the psychology of their decision making, you can make a bigger impact. So it doesn’t matter if you’re a doctor, a lawyer, a dentist, a nurse, if you deal with people, there is something in this course that’s going to help you now, the course is completely self paced. So if you buy it, and you don’t finish it or even want to take it until 2023, that is completely fine. It’s 10 hours of high quality professional grade video, 4k video, if you’re not a visual person, you don’t really like video, there’s transcripts, there’s downloadable notes, there’s evaluation forms, so that you can go in and, really kind of get a better glimpse at what you might be doing right and wrong as a practitioner and a communicator. At the end of the day. The only people this course is not for is for people that just kind of want to download information and they never want to apply it because there is an exam. Because there are assignments, we are really trying our best here at art of coaching to make better communicators. Because a tagline and a hallmark of what we do is that more successful interventions are the result of more successful interactions. So again, that’s August 27 2019. Bought In it’s the step two to my book, it’s in depth view at everything we discussed here. I hope to see you guys inside, go to artofcoaching.com or check the show notes below.

Welcome to the Art of coaching podcast, a show aimed at getting to the core of what it takes to change attitudes, behaviors and outcomes in the weight room, boardroom classroom and everywhere in between. I’m your host, Brett Bartholomew, I’m a performance coach, keynote speaker, and the author of the book conscious coaching. But most importantly, I’m a lifelong student interested in all aspects of human behavior, and communication. I want to thank you for joining me. And now let’s dive into today’s episode.

All right, I am here with Stephanie Mock and Stephanie and I’ve been trying to link up for quite a while. But Stephanie, you’ve got a pretty crazy schedule because you have a lot of responsibility on your plate. First off, welcome to the show. Second, would you mind giving folks a little bit of background about your unique role and everything you do?

Stephanie Mock 3:21

Awesome. No, Brett, thanks for having me. So my name is Stephanie Mock. I have recently gotten to Mississippi State as the director of Olympic sports strengthing and conditioning I got here into June last year. So going almost a year now. But I’m, really excited to be here. My direct team responsibilities are volleyball, and softball, and then I do oversee the rest of the Olympic sports at Mississippi State.

Brett Bartholomew 3:44

Now you and I have a lot of common tight ends, I was noticing just from reviewing your bio, not too long ago, when you were at Clemson, you worked with men’s and women’s tennis, women’s diving men’s and women’s golf. I mean a litany of sports. I remember when I was at Southern Illinois, I had those same sports along with baseball, football, basketball, what have you. But it’s always nice to have another coach on that has such a diverse array of Strength Conditioning experience, because it really does remove a lot of bias from everything that you do. And you realize there’s so many different ways to do the things that we do within our profession. How did a lot of those circumstances or working with those different sports even let’s take swimming and diving just for an example? How did a lot of those things that maybe were outside in an initial scope, really make you change your view on how you approach certain things within strength and conditioning early on?

Stephanie Mock 4:32

Yeah, I think it was great. My time at Clemson I was there for five years and I started literally as an intern and move my way up to assistant director with Olympic sports strengthing conditioning and just within my time there I mean, I had direct responsibility of six different teams along with I assisted with all the teams so all 14 Olympic sports, and it gave me a great advantage because I got to work with field sports from a bioenergetic standpoint, I mean rotational sports, whether it’s volleyball, softball, baseball, some speed and power output sports like track and field. So I think it really allowed me to become very well versed in a lot of different areas. And I think nowadays, especially strength and conditioning coaches, and whether it’s interns in GA, sometimes they can get pigeonholed at the beginning of their career. And I think it’s really important to have a diverse, background. And I might have a little bit of bias because of this, but I really look for that. And I really try to preach it to my interns and my graduate assistants.

Brett Bartholomew 5:29

And so now with the way that your role and everything that has evolved, you know, being at Mississippi State and everything that you deal with now, can you walk me through a little bit about how your day to day, you know, has changed, especially from a leadership, administrative standpoint, everything that you really tried to do within Mississippi State of getting your staff on the same page, working well with the administration, some of the higher order leadership tasks? How was that change? And how is that really shaping the way you continue to push and evolve as a leader?

Stephanie Mock 5:57

Yeah, so whenever I got here, they asked me to do a SWOT analysis of just Olympic sports in general. So I did that first and foremost, looking at we did had two spaces, we had two weight rooms at first, and they were both pretty mediocre. And when I came in, I talked to them about centralizing everything and getting one weight room and making it extremely nice, because we could fit all the Olympic sports in there from a square footage standpoint. And then beyond that, really looking into staffing, I completely revamped everything from adding more full time positions. So I know a lot of sport coaches nowadays, they kind of get upset if they have a graduate assistant, let’s say not saying that the graduate assistant can’t handle the team, but they want a full time role in charge of their team. So I’ve really revamped that. So literally, we only have a couple of teams that have a GA still. But I try to reiterate to them that of course they’re certified and I oversight them. So that’s a big piece of, hey, let’s revamp everything going into this next year. And now that I have the pieces set up, I brought two of my old interns from Clemson as full time roles and they understand how I want things done. I think that’s an extremely important when you go to a new place, just making sure you have people there that always have your back and know what you expect, because then they can preach it. So whether it’s the graduate systems and the interns, and it really gets the wheels turning,

Brett Bartholomew 7:18

which can be a little bit harder than most realize, right? Like, especially when you’re talking about people that not only have the right energy and the right focus, but like you said, they have to have your back because managing change at any level really isn’t easy, especially in intercollegiate athletics, because of so many different shareholders and power brokers and things that you have to answer to, because it’s not just, I mean, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this or your experience, or even if it’s not something you may be dealt with, at Mississippi State, but you’ve heard through the grapevine, what have you but you know, how hard can it be sometimes to deal through that kind of muck and mire? Maybe you have an idea of how you want to revamp the weight room, and the changes you want to make. But have you ever had to fight much friction? Or have you heard of other people that tend to deal with that bureaucracy where it’s really so hard for them to make the necessary changes?

Stephanie Mock 8:06

No, I really liked this question. Because I think especially from a staffing standpoint, just making sure whenever I’m talking to my staff, making sure they understand that, hey, this isn’t just my program, this is our program. So whatever percentage that you want to have in it, like, do it, you know, so it’s not Stephanie Mock 100%. It can be 30% 30%, across the board for everybody. And it’s just taking hold of that and making sure you hire the right people and give them responsibilities that not only our strength of theirs, but a extreme interest, you know, when you’re assigning people roles that maybe aren’t the right fit, it’s like putting a square peg in a round hole of hey, that’s not their strength, and they can’t play to it. So just making sure, like when I did staffing, I know I’m extremely extroverted, like I don’t need five steps on the staff, I need people that are going to compliment me well. And I think sometimes if you walk into a situation that you get to whatever place you’re at, and you have all the same type of people, whether they’re extremely extroverted, you can butt heads. So I think when I’m looking at resumes, a big piece that I look at is just making sure that the right fit for my staff from a personality standpoint, and then what they’re extremely good at, and then play to that because then they’re gonna flourish the place that they’re at

Brett Bartholomew 9:19

Yeah, I love that. Because you bring up an excellent point. Some people I think, don’t realize it, let’s say somebody interviewed with you, and they got turned down for the job, right? And they may think, man, I don’t know, like, I was so prepared. I had this I had that. And the reality is, it might just be too similar a personality. And that’s not something you maybe had against that person. It’s just that you have this idea. I think of it like an orchestra, right? It’s definitely like, you have to have a certain amount of instruments that have to play in concert with one another. You wouldn’t want to have too many tubas. They’re going to tend to overpower everything. And so within that, can you talk about your hiring practice a little bit whether it’s interview questions that you really have adopted some that you’ve gravitated away from talking about your practice as a leader in regards to Finding the right staff and those kinds of methods that you use.

Stephanie Mock 10:03

I mean, I really look at just the best fit, not the best candidate just on paper. So who can complement myself well, and then also, I look at project stability, this is someone that is going to either like grow into the role, or it’s more of plug and play. So like if I bring somebody in, and maybe this is their first full time role, like I know, I have them for a few years, right. And hopefully, I can project them forward working towards me and assistant director role, or director roles, so I have some time with them versus if I have a full time or leave, and I replace them with another full timer. Like, of course, they’re able to do with the last person day when it comes to running teams and things like that. But sometimes, especially with Olympic sports, people can move up in the ranks pretty quickly, especially from a payroll. So it’s tough to keep people places sometimes for a long period of time, but I really try to look at those two things predictability, and then plug and play and just find the best fit.

Brett Bartholomew 11:03

Is there anything that somebody can do? And I’m trying to think of, you know, giving somebody something that may be counterintuitive, right, not wacky, not something that’s trying to get attention, or even just, you know, hey, look at me, but what is something counterintuitive, somebody may be able to do to really set themselves apart in the context of this question, Coach Mock comes from the standpoint that I know, in my experience, in the past, I had people that, you know, they said, hey, it’s a good thing, you didn’t just rely on sending in a resume, because this is our pile, right? And they showed me a pile of like 150 resumes, and I’ve been on record in the past of saying, hey, not everybody’s gonna get to read your resume. And now, of course, that, you know, I’m not saying nobody’s gonna read a resume. But my assertion is that a resume by itself is not enough anymore, with how inundated folks like yourself become with people that want these jobs. So is there anything counterintuitive or creative, yet respectful, that people can really do to set themselves apart in your eyes?

Stephanie Mock 11:59

Yeah, even I can give an example. Because right now I have two paid intern positions open. And I’ve gotten a huge stack of resumes. And I actually went to a conference and through the grapevine, a couple of professionals that knew me, and they were, they knew I was going to the conference, and one of their graduate assistants had talked to them. So he actually came to the conference to introduce himself to me. And it was a huge, and he actually even mentioned me to like, he stayed in his car overnight to come to the prince to meet me. And I was, wow. Like, that’s commitment. And that’s something that I’m looking for in my staff. So that really set himself apart in my eyes by coming face to face. And whether you’re at like a university that’s close, and you know that that University has a position open, and you drive and go introduce yourself in person, that means a lot to me, because not only like it shows your commitment, but also I get to meet you in person which a resume on paper only got so much like you’re saying so I think that’s definitely a way that you can set yourself apart just FaceTime because everybody uses text messaging, email, but I just appreciate whether it’s a phone call or in person.

Brett Bartholomew 13:13

That’s a helpful example. And I know this next question, Coach Mock is going to come from somebody that DM me directly. Actually, I’ve gotten a DM from this person about four times. And they said, hey, you know, I’m from outside the country. And you know, I’m looking for a place to do a graduate assistantship in the States. Any tips, and where I run into frustration with this is, you know, and I always try to be as candid as possible, is, and this isn’t me being a smartass. So anybody listening to this, don’t misinterpret that. The truth is, and how I typically respond is like, hey, like, you know, I don’t really wake up every day and put a finger on the pulse of, you know, who is at what school now? And are they hiring and this and that, like that, and I almost kind of want to say to them, that’s your job, you know, you gotta reach out to these people, and do your due diligence, because also, I don’t know what that individual is looking for. And so I end up getting in this email exchange or direct message exchange. And I say, well, listen, man, that depends on some contextual factors, like, where are you weak? As a coach? What kind of experience are you looking to get? What are kind of travel considerations? First of all, have you even looked into getting a visa? Do you know that you’re going to be able to come to the States, but I do want to say I sympathize with people not knowing, because so many people think, Oh, the bigger the school, the better, right? I need to go to some big, name school and I’ve talked about this a lot on the podcast, but Coach mock, I do get the question a lot. What advice would you give that person that reaches out to you and says, Hey, I want some advice. I know you’ve been in collegiate athletics for a long time. That’s my dream. How do I even find out what school is the most viable or could give me the best opportunity and what do I do from there?

Stephanie Mock 14:47

Yeah, I think people do tend to look at the big name schools, and I tell people, whether it’s even like podcasts, for example. It’s a great resource to listen to different professionals in the field. There’s a big school, small school private sector, just to see like what their thought processes are. And then also making sure it aligns, and then talking with people to make sure they’re great mentors, and they’re going to take care of you as people. And that’s something that I just pride myself on. But even me being at Clemson so long and moving up the ranks from intern to assistant director, like I knew I was at a place that Rick Francoise, the director, like he was taking care of me and taking time to teach me everything inside now. And I told him, my end goal was to be the director. And he was like, Well, I’m here to help you, you have to put the time. And so making sure you go to a place that people are gonna invest in you. And that’s something I pride myself on with, like unpaid interns, with the way I’m paying them is with educating them. So that’s my due diligence.

Brett Bartholomew 15:47

Yeah, and I hope anybody listen to this, you’re catching these common themes again, and again, and again. And if there’s any kind of ambiguity left on that a lot of this is what we covered early on in the I might have to remember what episode is I can look it up when we’re talking, but you know, avoiding or getting over these kind of early career obstacles, like what are you really able to do? And how are you going to get past those things, but there’s really no secrets, right? Like, you said, Coach, Mock, you’ve got to find a way to create FaceTime, if you can’t get there. You know, you can actually use FaceTime. You know, I remember there’s, you just got to get creative. I mean, in today’s technology, there are no shortage of examples. All right, Coach, Mark, let’s imagine I’m on your staff today, right. And I just joined. And you know, there’s so many different things that I could be overwhelmed by in terms of just getting used to everything that you do at Mississippi State, why you do it this way, what culture you’re trying to cultivate, but one of the things I find, and you and I have talked about in the past, that can be most difficult for people in this field is nomenclature, right? Consistent nomenclature, hey, you might have called it this, that and whatever, when you were at this club, or this team or this organization, but these are how we refer to things here. How important is such a simple thing like nomenclature, to setting a standard and really a rhythm to the workplace, within a new institution, organization?

Stephanie Mock 17:05

For sure, and that’s something I had to do at Mississippi State. It’s just really creating a culture and then also creating a playbook. So whenever our interns or GA’s, or any new staff member comes in, they receive our playbook, which is literally, of course rules, policies, procedures, etc. But one of the biggest things is just terminology with exercises and progressions and really setting people up for success. So whether we’re transitioning in and out, so you’re coming in as a new Assistant, you’re taking over to teams, keeping the exercise names the same, because the biggest piece is just making it a smooth transition for the student athlete, because that’s who we’re there for, ideally. So whenever we’re doing a sore next hamstring roller, we’re not changing the name with the strength coach, right, we’re working off the same playbook. And I think it creates a biome with the sport coaches, too, because everything is fluid. The biggest thing, whenever you’re having coaching changes, from a support staff standpoint, like strengthing, and conditioning, is just making sure that the sport coaches trust, especially in myself as the director, and me making the hire and making sure that it’s fluid, it’s not going to change the rhythm and where we’re going with this sports team

Brett Bartholomew 18:14

So elaborating that on a little bit like what are some examples, give me a case study of a time where either it was yourself when you first came on board, or somebody else that came on, can you give us whether it’s a humorous example, one that actually kind of ended up with you putting your foot in the mouth, like any kind of example of how a nomenclature thing that seems so silly ended up causing a lot of havoc?

Stephanie Mock 18:36

Yeah, um, I would actually say because we do use a lot of technology, which this is a kind of a spacey, I guess, example. But we have checklists for all the different pieces of technology. And when the interns come in, I liked for them, whether it’s like the gym, or let’s say there’s a checklist and I had our assistant who was semester before make it and I’m like, Alright, make it dummy proof. So like when our interns come in, it’s literally they can go to the checklist and do it without us even saying anything to them. So I think what the turnover of interns, for example, per semester, like just making all these checklists for the contact grid, the Nordborg. Just trying to make things fluent as we do turnover over and over and over.

Brett Bartholomew 19:17

Yeah. And do you guys have a central like operating document that you use that you continually up? You know, whether it’s on a Google Doc or anything like that as your priorities and procedures, like for example, one thing I have with art of coaching is, you know, when somebody comes on we have a Google doc that’s hyperlinked, right. So if somebody is confused on how to handle a certain protocol, they can go to almost this table of contents page, click on that hyperlink, and it takes them right down. And it’s kind of living, breathing document. I imagine you guys have something especially with how staff manuals have evolved. How do you go about the creation of that and how have you really made it I don’t want to say engaging, that’s not the right word. But how have you simplified it so that it’s so sticky and easy to navigate that it’s almost impossible to screw up?

Stephanie Mock 20:01

We do have a Google doc that’s always updating. And actually, my assistant is in charge of it. So every semester, we’re always changing things, whether it’s internship curriculum, especially right now. We’re transitioning towards this summer with, we’re going to have paid interns versus unpaid interns. So making their curriculum, of course, different, right. And then we have graduate assistants. So everyone’s at a different level, and roles and expectations and responsibilities are changing as I build the staff out. So as we add new people and pieces to the puzzle, making sure that like I was saying earlier, just giving responsibilities to complement their strengths.

Brett Bartholomew 20:39

Yeah, that’s a good example. Now staying on that same kind of theme of centralization. When you’re talking about creating policies, procedures, all these things, how do you and I’m going to use a term that oftentimes gets a bad rap, and strength and conditioning? How do you sell this vision, right? And if we look up just for the listeners sake, listeners, you know, if you look up what selling means, and I’d really encourage you all to read Daniel Pink’s book to sell as human, it’s a really good book, if you do the audiobook,, Daniel Pink’s a stud but he can kind of have this like, cheesy voice that sometimes, but selling is a reality of what we do as coaches, right? You have to paint a vision in people’s heads to give them this idea. Can you talk to me about how you do that process? Like, again, how do you paint the bigger vision picture for these global learners of saying, this is where we’re going? This is, why we’re going there. And then this is how it’s going to look, talk me through that process.

Stephanie Mock 21:29

Yeah, the biggest piece that I wanted to do when arriving and really wanted to create a culture at Mississippi State with strength and conditioning as I wanted to format almost like a team, right? So when you come into the weight room, we all have the same culture. And we have the same core values. So controlling the controllables are really big with me. So that’s just attitude, effort, discipline, along with, we really preach dominating the other 20 hours of the day. So of course, sports teams, they practice with other sport coaches, three hours, they lift weights, one hours, that leaves 20 hours outside of their that we want them to dominate. So from a nutrition standpoint, sleep and that’s how I tie in, for example, sports psychology, the nutritionist athletic training and recovery. But we really tried to establish the same core values with all of the teams that come in the weight rooms, we have nine different teams that come into our one space. So that was one really big theme with centralization is just creating those core values with the student athletes.

Brett Bartholomew 22:24

Yeah. So now I’m going to put you on the spot to something right. And let’s again, I’m going to give you a hypothetical, so because I’m sure it doesn’t happen at Mississippi State, and you’ve done some great places. But hypothetical, let’s say I’m a head Sport Coach of choose your sport, right. And I think, you know, frankly, anybody in strength and conditioning is full of crap. Now, I noticed I know that getting in better shape can improve the chances. But I’ve won a lot of championships with my team, right? And I’ve had things work well for a very long time. And I’m not really with the whole sport science and all the nuances in strength and conditioning. How are you selling me? How are you expecting me to relinquish control? And I know we like to think that, oh, the research is out there. How could you be so silly? But I think sometimes the reason I’m asking you this coach Mock is because we tend to get in our own bubble. And we think well, how silly How silly is it that these people couldn’t really see that but as you and I both know, not everybody operates off rationality. Right? There’s a lot of other hidden biases. So I think strength and conditioning is a loadable. To a degree, I’ve won championships multiple years. Why should my team buy into what you’re doing?

Stephanie Mock 23:28

Yeah I just really take time to educate the sport coaches, like we actually started a performance group with all the support staffs, and we meet with the student athletes to educate them. But also we’re taking time to educate the sport coaches too. And for example, like I’m new in Mississippi State, so of course not, everything’s perfect, but going into the fall, like we have all these different pieces of technology in the weight room that we’ve added. And before the semester starts, I’m planning on doing a walkthrough with the sport coaches of hey, this is how we use like the heart rate monitors, it’s how we use the Nord board, the groin bar. And anytime that we’re presenting the information to the sport coaches, I always frame it like for example, with the heart rate monitors for polar. When talking about loads and high speed running and things like that, I always frame it as an observation because you don’t want to come at the coach’s neck right or their ego of like, Hey, I think practice is too intense this day, like you need to change this, this and this, that’s never how like, go in on it, I’d always frame it. Hey, this is an observation that I’m seeing. Maybe these are a couple of things we could do, but I’m never going to tell them exactly what to do because you can’t attack the Sport Coach, you know, because then you’re definitely not going to get by him. But I really tried to like slowly wean because even me coming in and centralizing everything into one space. Like of course not everyone’s going to want that. You know, you’re always gonna have people that are gonna be unhappy. So you just have to find a happy medium to ensure weigh in, you know, find the small wins to lead to the bigger wins ideally.

Brett Bartholomew 24:54

Sure, yeah. And if I heard you correctly, feel free to check me if I didn’t hear you correctly on this but what I actually extracted from what you said it wasn’t just education that you do you include them, right like, because education sometimes can be talking at these individuals and trying to give them facts and figures. Sounds like what you do really well coach mock as you include them in the process by bringing them into an environment in which they could be unfamiliar, you’re showing them then things you’re demystifying a lot of this stuff that they might have preconceived notions of. So I think that’s an excellent point that the audience I hope folks hopefully is grasping is, you know, don’t do what I did early on, where I would give somebody research or I talked to them about X, Y, and Zed, you know, including them. And that was something that helped me get over this hump with actually a men’s golf coach, I brought him into the weight room and said, Hey, these are what we’re doing, like you’re welcome here every time and I did find out that later on, a big reason he caused the hassle with another strength coach is because they just made them feel like the weight room was off limits. And even though we do a really good job as strength and conditioning professionals at creating, you know, a focus environment there, we forget that sometimes that can be intimidating to others in a weight room isn’t always a welcoming place to everybody. That’s not like us. And that can influence their perceptions too.

Stephanie Mock 26:05

No for sure. An example that I actually did this past semester was looking into sleep bands. Because it’s something that not everybody has been, let’s say influenced by, but I, brought in the fatigue science, sleep bands, and I was like, Alright, I’m gonna put on like our CFO, some of our administrative people, and then some of our sport coaches to see, hey, what do you think of these sleep bands, that something that we could utilize with our athletes, do you think it’s information that we’d actually make changes off of, and I put our support staff or sports psychologists nutrition, other strength coaches on it just to see and get feedback at the end of the semester, because you don’t want to invest in something that people aren’t going to buy into, or utilize, especially a lot of money, right. So just literally putting it on them and having them go through the day to day and then giving them a feedback questionnaire at the end. So I think that’s just one way per example, that you could introduce something new and rather than going all in and investing in it, trial running it, of course, first to see what people think of it before you go put all your chips in.

Brett Bartholomew 27:06

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I think that’s a great example. And I’m shooting in the dark with this next question because again, for anybody listening, this is the first time that coach Mock and I have really had, I think a conversation that’s been more than five to 10 minutes seeing one another at conferences but I’d be interested on your take with this. I’m a big believer too that. I think sometimes people don’t let this technology just sit a little bit and let all the hype cool down to see what’s really around in three to five years. I feel like you know the minute something comes out whether it’s a new force plate, whether it’s a new testing protocol, we’re so quick to jump on that which is kind of silly because we have strength and conditioning coaches talk all the time about how frustrated we get his fads now, I will say this I also don’t envy you know, folks in your types of position where you know, a lot of this stuff is recruiting tool as well right. The school wants this stuff the school wants that whether it’s necessarily directly coming from you or not. We have to, you know, these student athletes get sold on what’s the best place to go spend the next four years of your life from an athletic development and educational standpoint. But what are your thoughts in terms of our almost insatiable desire to hop on the latest technology fad, as opposed to just sit back and say, You know what, we’re gonna let this one pass, we’re gonna see if it’s around still two to three years from now, and then we’ll dive in, because we feel pretty good about what we do.

Stephanie Mock 30:32

Ya know, it’s pretty crazy recruiting wise, like, whenever you have student athletes from high schools come on campus, and they talk about like, I had a volleyball player she was speaking on, they use the push bands, and this, that, and the other. I’m like, Man, I can’t believe their clubs are like investing in all these different pieces of technology, that and if you don’t have it at your university, you look like a schmuck. Ideally, you’re like, hey, well, I need to have all of these pieces of equipment. But at the end of the day, it needs to be something that I’m utilizing and talking with, especially, for example, I’ll get back to the sleep band with talking with academics and how that can help them from a tutoring standpoint of, hey, we had Suzie Q in A tutoring session at 9pm. And that led to her not going to bed until 2am, maybe can we move that tutoring session, and really getting all parties involved, whether it’s academics, or psychology, and then also, even from a wearable standpoint, I’ve reached out to our engineering department to break down the pieces of technology to look at whether it’s like an accelerometer inside and comparing pieces of technology and really seeing the validity of it. And maybe even like, almost like Florida with Gatorade, creating your own piece of equipment on campus, you know, using those resources that you have leaning on them. And then that shows from an administrative standpoint, like, Hey, you’re really pushing to try to find the best product, maybe they’ll back you on other things, really making an effort to be creative.

Brett Bartholomew 31:51

Yeah, you touched spot on with that. I think that a lot of times people, they think, man, we don’t have this budget, it’s such a, you know, this is something that’s working against me, I think that not having a great budget or having a lack of resources is really what drives to use your term centralization, and even an element of innovation, because what’s right for Mississippi State may not be right for somebody else may not be right for somebody else. And that’s, what makes it unique, right? And we have this culture, that prizes, measuring things at the deepest levels, as opposed to understanding people that sometimes this rabbit Chase have more ways to measure more ways to measure, we can forget that you can actually measure the social side as well. And we may be lacking in that because we’re constantly chasing the newest rabbit in the hat.

Stephanie Mock 32:34

For sure, I couldn’t agree more.

Brett Bartholomew 32:36

So talk to me a little bit about that. Because there are social aspects of your field as you’ve continued to progress in your field. Sorry, in your career, as you’ve continued to progress, just, different elements that you have to think about beyond the weight room, can you talk us through a little bit of the other things that you have to focus on in your day to day, as opposed to just you mentioned some staff development pieces? And that’s always critical. You mentioned the centralization of certain processes. Are there other kinds of social things that you have to do, whether that’s in the community, or whether that’s with higher level leadership in the administration? What else do you kind of have to navigate in your day to day that has really been a refreshing challenge for you.

Stephanie Mock 33:12

I think just there’s a lot of new support staff on board at Mississippi State. So adding more sports psychologists or more full time, nutritionists athletic training, growing academia, and really just getting all those different parties on the same page and getting that centralized. And I like to say the holistic approach of we’re all having a handle on the student athlete, but you want to make sure that the student athletes sees all of us on the same page. It’s not like, Okay, Coach marks over in the weight room. And she’s completely disconnected from Dr. Brutus, over in sports psychology, like making sure that the student athlete really understands that we’re all working together to make them the best person, you know, at the end of the day. And I think just with all these new staff members joining making sure that one we’re getting to know one another at a high level and then two working together. So like, one thing I’m adding, going into the summer fall is just sort of short sessions with our sports psychologists and nutritionists, at the end of the weight room sessions of, hey, I’ll give you seven minutes of my hour to speak to the student athlete, because that’s only going to help me as a strength coach get a better product. So I think just getting all those parties, I don’t think people realize how many people have a hand on just one person and making sure that our communication is at a high level.

Brett Bartholomew 34:30

Right? strength coaches are definitely just one cog in the wheel. And that’s not to diminish our impact. But I do think that we tend to be so hyper focused on what we do that we forget that highly integrated approach. Would you mind sharing a little bit about some of the things that your sports psychologist might talk to the athletes about? What are some things whether it’s coping, focus, attention, any of those things, or is it something completely unrelated? Are there any things that you can share on here?

Stephanie Mock 34:56

Yeah, I think one thing with the student athletes now can appeared to let’s say, 10 years ago, it’s just the level of anxiety that we’re seeing, especially from social media, of some of our higher profile student athletes having, let’s say, 20 plus 1000 followers and constantly being on there. And their image, you know, they’re so worried about what people are seeing in them that they never have, quote, unquote, bad days, because they’re always posting the good on social media. So I don’t think people realize, like the large responsibility that social media adds to the student athletes life.

Brett Bartholomew 35:31

Yeah, definitely, I can’t remember, the stat Exactly. So I’m not going to try to butcher it here. And I want to respect the conversation and not look it up. But I mean, they’ve talked about just the incredible rates, that anxiety has risen. And there was an even more interesting discussion the other day, and this is something that I think I want to get your take on as well. In the past, and one of my courses, I talk about burnout, and we go through about 50 years of literature on burnout, which is a legitimate psychological syndrome, that’s now even identified by the World Health Organization. And it was funny, one morning, I had the chance to sleep and a little bit, I’d gotten back from some travel. And so I had a rare opportunity to spend some time with my wife in the morning. And I think she was watching, I can’t remember who’s Good Morning America, or what, you know, one of those. And they were talking about, you know, the fact that burnout, you know, is on the rise, and one of the folks on air said, you know, this is all a bit soft for me, you know, my grandfather did this and that, and they never got burnout. And the other host brought up an excellent point. I’m really glad he did, because the literature confirms this. He said, right. But your grandfather, and a lot of our ancestors also had very different work days, they didn’t need to constantly be connected, what they’re saying about why anxiety and burnout rates are so much higher. Now. This is one reason right? Like professionally is, we are constantly on like we constantly have to be on the beck and call of many of our employers, there’s people reaching out to us this over connectedness and it’s not even just social media. I mean, this is well outside the performance profession. They deal with this with doctors, nurses, they deal with this at high level financial levels, social activism, you know, burnout is an interesting thing. And you’re starting to see more and more coaches, not be afraid to admit that they deal with that. I think in the past, there’s definitely this stigma that if you burn out, you’re soft. And if you guys still think that, again, I encourage you to look at the research in the course. But when it comes to helping people manage their career trajectory, Stephanie, the way they handle themselves in the workplace, the way that they really make themselves better, so that they can be a part of that Mississippi State team for a longer period of time in a sustainable way. How do you encourage them to manage these aspects, not just athletes, people of your staff? How do you make sure they don’t go, you know, down this route?

Stephanie Mock 37:41

Yeah, I notice, especially with Olympic sports, for example, like even myself, being the director, I have a role a lot of responsibilities. And okay, so I have volleyball in the fall that’s in season. And then I have softball that’s in season in the spring, and making sure that I’m not running myself in the ground of traveling all weekend with a team and then like softball, has midweek games, traveling with them during the week. And then having all these meetings, like we take turns with traveling because literally as you start traveling with teams and becoming full fledged involved, and not saying I don’t want my staff members to travel but taking turns because when people are gone so much and you’re not literally getting one day off from let’s say January 1 The whole way into the summer, like that will create burnout and and it’s different with Olympic sports, because we have teams like my one assistant, he has soccer and then track and field like we’re in season all year round. There’s not a period of time that like we’re in season like football and then we’re an offseason or basketball, like in the fall or in the summer you’re training through and then you have your like Thanksgiving into March Madness like we’re in season all the time. And making sure that from a travel standpoint, because we are in a power five school and sport coaches expect travel, like taking turns whether it’s a graduate assistant, like what for me, for the midweek games, so I can handle things with pushing the culture and with administration, the program, but really just taking turns and being intelligent. And in talking with the sport coaches about too. One thing that I’ve been thinking about, it’s just Okay, so I have volleyball in the fall and softball in the spring. Well, if I’m gone all fall with volleyball, like that’s the most important time in the weight room was softball. So finding a balance of whether I need a graduate assistant to take turns traveling with me because I don’t want to neglect the other team that I’m training too, because that’s a really important time for them.

Brett Bartholomew 39:30

Yeah, and I think so if I hear you correctly, you’re not somebody that pushes this agenda of you have to be the first one and last one out in perpetuity for the length of your career. Am I hearing you correct in that?

Stephanie Mock 39:41

That’s correct. Yeah, we play like I value work ethic at a high level, but I do want longevity. So making sure that like you’re taking the time to one of my big core values for myself is just reading every day. You know whether it’s like getting on like social media, Twitter, a podcast, reading a book, but making sure that you do take Your time like for yourself, whether it’s like I always put family first. And I tell my staff that so if they have something going on like you go, we will find a way to cover whether it’s your team or travel, that’s where we have a large staff, but making sure that they’re taking care of their personal life and their family above anything else.

Brett Bartholomew 40:18

Yeah, no, I love that. And I think it’s telling that we typically are quick to correct. And I kind of baited you into that one. I was like, you know, so you’re not saying for? Well, yeah, but we also aren’t just playing, you know, on our phones all day. You know, I think that like, it’s just an interesting culture that we have now and I was subjected to it, you know, in terms of, and I loved it, like I just identified with that I’ve always identified with being this underdog grinder type. And then you get to a point where, and we’ve talked about a lot on this podcast is sustainability, high level is key. And especially if you want to embody true leadership, I think that that’s a critical element. Now, you know, mentioning something else, we’ve talked a little bit about transitions, whether that’s, you know, everything you do from a centralization standpoint, to ensure smooth transitions, obviously, you’ve transitioned in your career, everybody’s going to transition at some point, let’s change the focus a little bit to a more senior level coach, somebody that’s been in it for a while, and maybe they’re looking at taking another job. And that doesn’t mean something’s necessarily wrong with their current job, maybe they love where they’re at. But you know, it’s just time for a change. They want to kind of grow, and there’s some opportunities out there. What advice do you have for fellow professionals that are thinking about transitioning? And you know, what can typically scare them a little bit? What can ease the road for them? How can they handle these transitions most effectively, within their own career?

Stephanie Mock 41:37

Yeah, I think just making sure that the next step you’re going to be successful in and one of the big pieces for me when I was leaving Clemson, because it is a great place, as the assistant director and taking my director position was making sure talking with my mentor, my director there, Rick about, hey, do you think this is the right opportunity for me, and one of the big pieces was, hey, I’m going from a 14, team, Olympic sports staff to hey, we’re going to mSv state, we have nine Olympic sports. And I know Rick was stressing to me, Hey, I know this would be a good step for you taking over as a director, rather than let’s say going to like, a Stanford with like 30 Plus Olympic teams, and dealing with all those different head coaches, like talking it over with your mentors, and really making sure that it’s the right step. And you’re also going to be successful, and, also having the funding, you know, to make changes and add full time staff. And they’re invested in me, because when I was heading to Mississippi State, they not only offered me the director position, but I could hire one full time staff member so I could bring someone with me. And I knew that would help drive the program where I wanted to go

Brett Bartholomew 42:49

there. And to your point. I mean, it’s great to say Make, sure you’re going to be successful. But people don’t always really know that, do they? Right? Like because you can be in positions where if somebody says, you know, they’ve kind of laid everything out for you, and it seems like a homerun. And then you get there and you’re like, Wow, this was not as anticipated. And now you’ve got to see that through. So would you say that, like, you know, they need to consider almost a pre mortem as well, like, Hey, I’m sure I’m going to take this job, we’re moving forward. But do you think it’s efficacious for them to think all right, what if shit hits the fan? What if this is not what we ended up signing up for? Or do you think people have to go into it just full hearted and kind of hoping for the best and almost kind of naive to that kind of stuff?

Stephanie Mock 43:31

Yeah, I think you’ll definitely like you have to do your research on people that have been there and maybe left and went somewhere else. Like, said he took a position as an assistant, like, where did they go after that? Did they go up? Or do they go down? You know, projectory, off of that university? What have you seen, and also, I think there’s some things like you can’t control everything, like there’s gonna be some negatives, no matter where you go. Like, everyone thinks the grass is always greener on the other side, no matter what university you go to, there is going to be some type of negative, you know, and you can’t expect things to be perfect. But you have to weigh the pros and cons and the positives and the negatives, but you always have to brace yourself for things that were unexpected 100%. Like, it’s not going to be perfect by any means.

Brett Bartholomew 44:12

Right And we’re already seeing a lot of change happen in the collegiate landscape in general, right. During the time of this recording, we saw there is this fervor online of people seeing that the University of Kansas is now going to answer it a medical now, I think it’s funny, people immediately go to worst case scenario, and they’re like, see this and this and this? And the reality is they don’t think okay, how could this be good? Why did this happen? What is this going to look like in the future? What new skill sets does this mean that I have to have, but it is a big debate and discussion right now. And at least in the strength and conditioning landscape of what life in the university or intercollegiate setting is going to look like over the next three, five, maybe even 10 years? Do you have any taken that like, where do you think a lot of this is going with the change in the shifting that we’re seeing in terms of oversight?

Stephanie Mock 44:55

Yeah, I think it’s pretty interesting when it comes to the standpoint of everything starts in professionals. Sports, right, and then it trickles down to collegiate. But a lot of things I’ve been seeing is just that whether it’s NBA or NFL like some of your strengths now, like they’re also PTs. So I think from a strength conditioning realm, like, people are bringing different tool sets, and whether it’s being a physical therapist or athletic trainer, like I’ve seen nutritionists that also are athletic trainers, like a dual threat at some of the smaller schools, so you’re really staffing you’re hiring someone, but they can do both, because maybe you can’t afford to buy or like hire just a sports nutritionist. But um, yeah, I definitely think things are going in an interesting direction. Whether it’s right, wrong and different is just making sure that you have the right people in place to lead some of these fronts.

Brett Bartholomew 45:46

Yeah, if it’s not checked, it can very quickly turn into kind of a house of cards type scenario, right, you do see these micropolitics in some way, shape or form in every organization. And this is why, you know, in my opinion, I think that one thing people have to be really leery of is thinking that org charts or things like that are gonna solve the problem. And we’ve talked about this a bit in the past, as well. But I really think stream coaches have got to get stronger in terms of business managerial skills, and all these other things. Because it’s really hard to play chess, if you don’t understand all the moves of the pieces on the board. And I think that we get as training conditioning coaches, we understand some things super well. But you know, you also have to make sure that you would even know how to act if you ever found yourself at the big boys table. And coaches just always aren’t the best negotiators. They tend to think that, you know, some elbow grease and positive attitude and energy will overcome all and unfortunately, you do have to learn some politics in this regard as well, you know, in regards to some of those, like, things that you still face in your career, because I mean, you have such an incredible position. And you know, you just by talking to you this short amount of time, it’s evident that you have a tremendous passion for teaching and mentoring. And really making sure that you set everybody up for success. What are some things that you inherently still find yourself struggling with either personally or professionally that you want to improve on within the next few years? Or even next few months? What’s something that’s a really big kind of Bullseye where you’re like, God, I know, I need to really focus on this a bit more.

Stephanie Mock 47:12

Yeah, I think one thing that’s really interesting was strengthing, auditioning is just truly breaking the stigma that females can’t work with male athletes, because that’s one thing that I’ve ran into taking this direct role at Mississippi State is, like different people will come in the weight room and be like, Oh, you’re the director of like, the female sports, right? And I’m like, No, I’m over all of the sports. So I think just making that more of a norm, you know, like females working with male teams and being successful at it, because you don’t want to put certain females in that leadership role and not succeed. But I think we just need more females working with males to show that it can be done and at a high level, too.

Brett Bartholomew 47:52

So how can we combat that again, case study, let’s imagine I’m female strength coach, I’m in the field. I’ve been in the field for about three years. And no matter what, and even though it’s not overtly stated, I know that I keep running into these obstacles where it seems like I cannot break through either this next roll or even on the floor, you know, what can I do? What are some like key things that can really help me overcome these, pieces that are against me, or at least provide some element of friction?

Stephanie Mock 48:20

Yeah, I know from my past, like, I started as an intern with football at West Virginia University. So I started around males. But I think really just putting yourself in roles that whether you’re working with Olympic sports, like making sure you’re trying to get yourself involved with all of the teams, including the male teams, like I know, at Clemson, I help with baseball a lot. And just making it the norm. And I know even taking the director role. And Mississippi State I had a lot of females reach out to me to come an intern. And they’re like, I’ve always wanted to intern for a director that’s a female, and I told them I’m like, It’s not about being a female, it’s just working for the best coach. So not making it gender specific is something that I really try to vocalize. So a lot of the females that do call me coming up in the field, just always putting it as no, we’re all coaches competing against one another. It shouldn’t be gender specific,

Brett Bartholomew 49:09

couldn’t agree more. And it those of you listening, if you’re just now starting to listen to the podcast, please go back and look at previous episodes. We have more than I think at this time six, female strength and conditioning coaches and even a former Olympian Sarah Hendershot, who have been interviewed, but everybody from Nikolai Morris Sarah, Molly Benetti, Jamie Lafleur. And so if this is a topic that really interests you, please make sure and go back to other episodes, because it is definitely something that, you know, I think is important, and I’ve wanted to discuss more on this podcast, because that’s a lot of what this is about is discussing some of the things that maybe we all feel, but we don’t really want to always discuss any you do see this in strength and conditioning. Over the years, a lot of things have been swept under the rug. And now finally, people are starting to get a little bit more vocal about people are starting to say, You know what, like, I don’t think that we need to be quiet about a lot of these things anymore, whether it’s stuff that we talked about burnout, anxiety, lack of pay, you know, female issues, you know, I have somebody coming on the future that was the first African American police chief in the city of Chicago. And he talks about how he navigated power and prejudice to become, you know, to get that position. I think it’s critical. Are you currently mentoring a number of coaches that are kind of going through this? Or have in some way, shape or form? Do you? What’s that mentoring process? Like you’ve been really in any capacity? Whether you are or not, you know, like, how do you approach mentorship in your role and your outside life?

Stephanie Mock 50:35

For me, I know especially I mean, from a female standpoint, just making sure that you handle yourself in a respectable manner, not put yourself out there. But also I, actually had an interesting conversation with Pat Ivy the other day about talking about like, okay, so we have these different, like women’s breakfast, or women’s conferences, and ends up being all women, but you should be inviting the males that are in the power positions that can uplift the females. So I think sometimes thinking about that, because a lot of the males are making the hires, so inviting those guys into our circle, because it’s important to really make this next step.

Brett Bartholomew 51:13

Yeah. And that’s tricky, right? Because I mean, I think anybody and it’s easy to point fingers, but governing bodies, I really do think that more of us, as coaches have always got to take on that onus and responsibility, we can, you know, you go to a lot of these clinics, and there are some times where I’d complain about man, I’ve seen this talk at million times, you know, it seems like five of the same topics are on this. And then I just realized, you know, like, it’s kind of on me, I need to either start a clinic of my own, which we hosted our first event in January 2018. Or I need to go to other events and seek outside scope. So I do want to encourage, you know, anybody listening to this, like now, there’s no better time now than to reach out and connect with people that, want to do these things and find more creative ways. I mean, coach, do you do things like that? Or do you have plans while you’re at Mississippi State to do some things, whether they’re in house or, you know, inviting more people in and kind of creating some kind of conference or clinic of some kind where you can talk about these issues or other issues in the field? Or is that not something that you guys just based on your schedule, and the demands that you really have in your future?

Stephanie Mock 52:15

I know, like one thing I put as, like a staff goal is every month we call a professional in the field and do some type of Skype call, just to kind of, of course, we’re sitting in our weight room and talking with one another every day just to bring in fresh ideas. So I make it realistic that just one professional month rather than saying like we’re gonna call someone every week, because you’re like, you’re saying we’re extremely busy. So I think it just helps whatever we’re working on, brainstorm with them and kind of pick their brain on what they’re doing at their school and, seeing how we can broaden our network and possibly bring up ideas like this.

Brett Bartholomew 52:51

Yeah. And would you stick just to strengthen conditioning professionals? Or would you reach out to people in other fields and navigate this in their own right?

Stephanie Mock 52:57

I think I definitely need to do actively a better job of possibly reaching out to different professionals in different fields. I think that would be fantastic. It’s a great idea.

Brett Bartholomew 53:08

No, I know that’s where in the past five years, especially I’ve grown the most is realizing that no matter how much I love our field, and but I think of human performance under a much bigger umbrella. Right. And I know that some of the people that helped me get through some sticking points were people that, you know, just were outside of this field and weren’t that close, because there’s so many issues, like I talked about earlier, and we’ve talked about that we think strength and conditioning, it’s kind of like it’s again, we laugh, because we look at people that say, Oh, my sports different are my, daughter is different, or this is different, or like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like athletic development principles are pretty similar. You know, for the most part, everybody thinks are their own snowflake. But we really do the same with our own profession. We tend to like hem and haw about these issues. And it’s funny, if you just go like, sometimes just go on Twitter and look at somebody I was looking at. Somebody that worked at a university, and it was engineering and whatever. And they have their own squabbles of the same time. They’re like, well, people wouldn’t be so worried about fancy design, we wouldn’t have these accidents, or if so many people weren’t, you know, and you’re just like, oh, yeah, that’s like the equivalent of people talking about, you know, trying to make their programs overly novel and not adhering to sound principles. I just think that there’s tremendous value in making sure like now, I two times a year at least, I go to a conference that has nothing to do with strength and conditioning. And I find it as everything to do with strength and conditioning, if that makes sense.

Stephanie Mock 54:27

For sure. I definitely think you see that in a lot of leadership, like whether it’s reading a leadership book, like the degree giving different examples of how people have led whether it’s companies and become successful, because ideally, we’re trying to do the same thing, just in athletic realm.

Brett Bartholomew 54:44

Yeah, and history is a good reminder that too, like reading autobiographies, you find that it really is something that it just it’s all the same shit, it tends to repeat itself. And that dawned on me when somebody would be like, Hey, I’m not a strength coach, but can I read your book? And I’m like, at first I didn’t really understand the question. I’m like, well First, and they were like, well, I just, I mean, you use the term athletes and strengthen conditioning coaches. And I’m like, buddy, you know, I read books by, I don’t know a guy that owned a hotel, a guy that owned a restaurant, like I don’t serve food for a living, but it’s all the same kind of thing. I do think the fundamental switch we need to have is that coaching is leadership. Right? Like coaching is leadership. It’s teaching, it’s many other things. But it is leadership. And so you have to study historical failures and successes of leaders. You’ve got to get around other leaders, people that have different perspectives. And it’s only through that kind of cross training of your education. Are you going to figure out where all the dimly lit corners are in our field, but I go on that tirade a lot. Nobody wants to hear me belabor that. Listen, coach, I’ve taken a lot of your time and you shared a tremendous amount of wisdom. We’re getting you on for a part two, no doubt. If people want to reach out to you directly if they want to learn more about everything that you’re doing, if they possibly even want to send you a resume, like how can people get in touch with you and support Mississippi State Athletics.

Stephanie Mock 55:59

Of course, go on our website, my email will be on there along with you can follow our Instagram page at Hill State strength. I handle all the DMS. So if you want to get a hold of me and even like you want to get on a conference, call and chat and shoot me some questions, I’m completely open minded to that. So at Hill State Strength, is fantastic email, and then we can go from there.

Brett Bartholomew 56:22

I love it. And guys, as always, like I said, at the end of every podcast, all of this will be linked at the bottom in the show notes. Please make sure to provide Coach Mock with your feedback and thanks. She’s extremely busy, but you know, it’s people like her that keep this podcast running and hopefully keep the field rowing. Coach Mock, I can’t tell you enough how much I appreciate your time.

Stephanie Mock 56:40

Thank you, Brett for having me.

Brett Bartholomew 56:43

All right.

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