Did you know there is NO POSITIVE CORRELATION between time spent trying to become self-aware and actually becoming more self-aware? (Eurich, 2017)
In short, additional self-reflection doesn’t necessarily make you more self-aware.
This surprising finding has since fueled the career and research of Tasha Eurich, and inspired her to teach others how to enhance the quality of their introspection.
Tasha Eurich is an organizational psychologist, researcher, and New York Times best-selling author. Globally recognized as the #1 self-awareness coach, communication, and organizational culture expert, she uses science to help leaders achieve positive, measurable change.
In today’s episode, she shares several insights about the science and strategy of self-awareness, including:
- A tactical definition of what self-awareness is, and what it is NOT (12:20)
- The benefits and consequences of introspection (26:00)
- How to get GREAT feedback by asking the right questions (39:20)
- The seven types of self-knowledge that separate the aware from the unaware (58:10)
- You can also find these outlined in our FREE Downloadable Reflection Guide
To learn more about Dr. Eurich’s work, buy her best-selling book, and take advantage of her Insight Quiz, you can visit her website HERE.
Speaking of books, they make GREAT stocking stuffers! Please help us support the Leukemia Lymphoma Foundation and the Alzheimer’s Association by purchasing a signed copy of Conscious Coaching. This is not only a great cause, but also gives us the chance to personally say thank you for supporting our small family-owned business. Your support makes a tremendous difference and we appreciate our community more than you know! CLICK HERE to make your purchase of $11.99/ each!
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TRANSCRIPTION
Brett Bartholomew 0:12
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Hey, we’re proud to announce that we have reopened our Art of Coaching Speaker School for 2023. Now this is something we keep small, all of our events are small, but Speaker School is smallest amongst them. Because we want people to get a ton of personalized feedback, a ton of reps. Now, who is this for? If you are somebody that speaks for a living, you do it a ton. Maybe you’re a professor, maybe you’re a motivational speaker, maybe you’re a coach, whatever that is, yes, it’s for you.
But it’s also for the individual that has a ton of social anxiety or the individual that wants to speak more, but doesn’t even know where to start. So whether you already do this as part of your life, either now, or you want to start a career in speaking or you simply just want to give better toasts at your friend’s wedding that is coming up. We have resources for you. We do a lot of improv here we work with you on your speech design. Again, it doesn’t matter what the context is. And you’re gonna get a practice and practice and roleplay and get this out in front of people.
Better yet we have a customized evaluation that is going to help you get the feedback you need. Everybody in the workshop gets it, you get chances to get feedback from everybody in terms of Hey, how was my tonality? How was my clarity? How was my storytelling structure? What did you take away from it? What could I do and then we give you chances to do it over then we give you more and more reps. So if you don’t want to just sit around and hear about the principles of good speaking, if you don’t want to just hear about somebody talk about them on a podcast and you actually want to get your hands dirty. You want to get reps and you want to walk out the door with something actionable with something that you can talk that you can give that day ready to roll, make sure you check it out, go to artofcoaching.com/speaker Now that’s artofcoaching.com/speaker Now because it’s our only one next year, and when spots fill up, they’re gone
Welcome to the Art of coaching Podcast. I’m Brett Bartholomew, and at a young age poor communication nearly cost me my life. Now, I help others navigate the gray area of social interaction, power dynamics and communication so they can become more adaptable leaders regardless of their profession, age or situation. This podcast is for everybody who is fascinated with solving people problems. So if you’re in the no nonsense type who appreciates frank conversations, advice you can put to use immediately and learning how others navigate the messy realities of leadership. You’re in the right place. I’m glad that you’re joining us. Let’s dive in.
Today, I’m excited to bring you my conversation with Dr. Tasha Eurich Dr. Eurich is an organizational psychologist, a researcher and a New York Time I’m a best selling author of the book insight, The Surprising Truth About how others see us how we see ourselves, and why the answers matter more than we think. She is globally recognized as the number one self awareness coach, communication and organizational culture expert. And she uses science, not a bunch of woowoo fluffy stuff, but actual hard science to help leaders achieve positive, measurable change.
She has worked directly with 10s of 1000s of leaders, and spoke and lived to hundreds of 1000s more on every continent, but Antarctica, her TED Talks had been viewed more than 9 million times. And her book is one of Brene Brown’s top leadership, business book recommendations. More importantly, she is candid, she was able and we always all say it, I’ll be honest, we do sometimes judge our guests by how well they’re able to balance between talking about the subject matter that they are experts in being a real person and just being able to improvise in real conversation. It’s a lot to do within an hour, and she more than met the challenge. So listen in to my episode with Dr. Tasha Eurich.
Everyone, thanks again, for sitting down with me at the Art of Coaching podcast. I am here today with Dr. Tasha Eurich. Tasha, thank you for sitting down today.
Dr. Tasha Eurich 6:23
Great to be here. Brett, thanks.
Brett Bartholomew 6:25
Listen, this is an incredibly important topic, people being able to be more self aware. And I love that you attack this from all angles, which we’re certainly going to get into one question off the bat. And I’m curious, right? We have a company that teaches people communication, negotiation, persuasion, you’re teaching people about self awareness and all the intricacies. Do you ever find? Or has it ever been frustrating to you? That when some people hear about these kinds of topics, they put it into this bucket of almost wishy washy, soft skills? You know, it’s almost like it’s notoriously hard for people to pin down what we’re really talking about, has that ever been your experience?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 7:05
Oh, absolutely. It drives me nuts. People use the term soft skills a lot when it comes to self awareness. And the beauty of this actually is that there is hard scientific evidence that it is a personal and organizational differentiator. So it usually can’t get too far along that conversation if you bring some data to the table. And actually, I sort of delight in that. I love helping people understand just how important that skill really is to them.
Brett Bartholomew 7:35
It intrigues me. You know, it’s always nice to hear people’s origin stories. There’s some things that I know about you, but we’re still getting to know each other. I know you’re the daughter of an entrepreneur, if I remember correctly, you’re a third generation entrepreneur, you grew up watching.
Dr. Tasha Eurich 7:47
Fourth.
Brett Bartholomew 7:47
Fourth, okay, so you grew up watching your mom run a company? What got you down this path? What made you interested in this? Because it’s not often you run across somebody who is an expert in world, worldwide leader in self awareness?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 8:04
Well, and the first thing I’ll say, before I say anything else to answer your question is I’m on this journey, just like everybody else’s. So even though I research self awareness, I’m going through the same process that we all are in very often learning, we’re not as self aware, as we think or want to be. But maybe we’ll talk about that later. In terms of how I got interested in this topic. I’ve been an organizational psychologist for the last 20 plus years. And during that time, I’ve had the opportunity to work with so many smart people.
You know, I sort of have a, like you said, an inborn love for leadership. And over the last 10 or so years, I’ve worked almost exclusively at the C suite level. So with very powerful, very senior people who are used to being told that they are awesome, and never hearing really anything that isn’t going well. And what I noticed in that time that I’ve, you know, sort of worked at that level is you everybody has a choice to make in their day to day life whether you’re a CEO, whether you’re brand new in your career, whether you’re not even in corporate America, you’re kind of out in the field, doing something that is really important every day
The choices to either live a life of seeing ourselves with rose colored glasses, which can be limiting, or to live a life for we’re always curious to know more about who we are and how we’re seeing in the service of, you know, being the most successful, fulfilled person we can possibly be. And I saw that pattern with my CEOs, you know, to a person, those that picked that first choice, you know, it’s a little easier to make a little less effort. They would often reach an upper limit of what they could achieve or accomplish or even feel in terms of their career and their life.
Whereas the people Fill in the second bucket who chose to become you know, I call it braver but wiser, were always more successful, and not just more objectively successful or extrinsically successful, but they were more fulfilled, you know, they had stronger relationships, they lived more meaningful lives. And so as soon as I started to see that distinction, I started to do some empirical research on it being a data nerd at heart. And our research team has been in place for gosh, not like eight or so years, not quite 10.
And we’ve learned that this skill is more important than we even thought it was going in. So it’s something that I thought would be like a passing phase to be, you know, a researcher and self awareness. But it’s really become, in some ways my life’s purpose.
Brett Bartholomew 10:51
Yeah, well, it makes a lot of sense. And by the way, it’s an important distinction that you made, right, between being successful and being fulfilled. I think, especially when we look at today’s landscape of mental health, right, there’s a times we can fall for that facade of somebody that seems, you know, they look really successful even go into an organization. And we’ll talk more about it. As we get into the interview. I know you went into Pixar, and so many other companies, you can see people who by all means are successful, but they may not be fulfilled in some aspect, right?
They’re either unhappy, like, and it doesn’t have to be like, I’m not happy with my life, it could be I’m not happy with this aspect of my work, or I think my team could perform better. And your book does a wonderful job of taking a lot of case studies from all over that spectrum. Before we go a little bit deeper, I do have one selfish question. And this is about self awareness, we do know, and your book does a great job of highlighting this, of course, we can all be more self aware.
But for some people, you know, they might kind of be a little bit too, I don’t want to use the term too self aware. But there’s a danger of that other flip of the coin right as well. Like, sometimes people can be a little bit too self censoring. Sometimes people can be a little bit too hyper critical. And I don’t think it just has to do with Type A individuals or anything like that. But can we address that end of the spectrum, before we get to the more common side, which is, of course, people not being self aware enough?
What are the dangers of maybe going the other way, because I know a lot of our audience can go into that side of the spectrum where they’re a little bit too self aware and too self critical at times.
Dr. Tasha Eurich 12:19
Yeah, so let me be very clear, what you’re describing is not self awareness, it’s self consciousness. And there are some pretty key distinctions between those two things. So self awareness, our team defines it as the will and the skill to know who we are and how we’re seen by others. And there’s a lot of kind of nuance to that we can get into it in a second. But the reason that’s important, the will and the skill to know or to understand is we’re not placing a value judgment on it,
We’re also not letting one of those two types of information, either a focus on you know, our own perception of ourselves or a perception of others of us, we’re not letting one of those dictate the entirety of who we are. And so that’s where I think you can contrast it with self consciousness, which is, you know, sometimes it’s a fear of not being seen a certain way by others, it might be placing others, your perceptions is more important than ours. It’s also just evaluative, right?
Self awareness is understanding and knowing. Whereas self consciousness is ruminating or perseverating, in a way that, frankly, is just about as unhelpful as it can possibly be. So it’s, you know, the distinction I’d make their event or the comparison rather, is to mindfulness. There’s a difference between being aware in the present moment without judging it, and overly judging or over evaluating what’s happening in the present moment. And I think that’s kind of, you know, similarity I see there.
Brett Bartholomew 13:59
Yeah, well, that is a powerful distinction. And so and I think that definition that you gave of self awareness is great, because it’s tactical, it’s clear, right? The last thing we ever want to do when we take a concept like self awareness, when we give it an operational definition, is make that even more ambiguous and vague, which I think sometimes folks do one great thing that and it was a huge learning for me, because we talked about self awareness and our workshops with the way that you have talked about it brings so much more, I think, just utility to it. You distinguish between internal and external self awareness. Would you mind elaborating on that a little bit for our audience?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 14:36
Definitely. So internal self awareness is understanding ourselves from the inside out. And that is going to be things like knowing our values, you know, what do we stand for knowing our aspirations? What do we want to experience and achieve our reactions in certain situations, but really the lens there is our own perception Have ourselves trying to get as clear and to your point as as specific and tangible as possible.
The other side of the coin, which it turns out is just as important is something we named external self awareness. And that’s the opposite. It’s seeing yourself through others eyes, self awareness from the outside in. And you know, a lot of that is knowing how, for example, to read a room, it’s knowing the impact that you have on the people around you. It’s knowing even, for example, what your personal brand is, what did people think about you the first time they met you?
And if you know that, how much more power does it give you in in your future? One really interesting thing that I think, you know, especially this audience can chew on a little bit is we expected or at least I expected that when you measure someone’s internal and external self awareness, that they would be at least slightly related. In other words, if one of them is high, the other might be higher. And vice versa, if one was low, the other would be lower. There is a 0.0 correlation between those two types.
Brett Bartholomew 16:06
That surprised me when I was reading that
Dr. Tasha Eurich 16:09
it was shocking to me absolutely shocking. But as we dialed into this a little bit more and got to understand what was happening, it really becomes very practical. Just because we focus on ourselves, and how we see ourselves doesn’t necessarily mean we’re going to be that interested in other people. And vice versa. We, you know, I call that category of people interceptors, you can also be a pleaser, who is so focused on how other people see you, or creating a certain perception that you’re not actually asking, What can I do in the spirit of my own happiness and success?
So the reason that’s practical is it tells us that the journey has to include both types of self awareness. And we’re all going to start out in different places. And again, you know, one of them doesn’t tell us anything about where we’ll be on the other. But that’s what I think can help us prioritize and our journey.
Brett Bartholomew 17:02
Yeah, I’m glad you said that. You know, I had a client recently that and they would coincide mainly with what you just said, was a pleaser. They just said, you know, when I’m interacting with my brother in law, during the holidays, I always want, he does so much for our family, I always want to make sure that we’re having this conversation. He feels special, he feels heard, he feels appreciated. And then she said, Then I put pressure on myself to be almost like the perfect conversationalist.
Brett Bartholomew 17:26
And you know, it’s interesting, because some of that goes into, you know, being self conscious, of course, but she’s so worried about making sure that he has a great experience, if I’m hearing you correctly, would that coincide with being a pleaser? To a degree?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 17:40
Yeah, that I love that example. It’s really practical. Another one that I thought of when you were saying that was, I’m a recovering pleaser. Some days, I’m better than others, but I bought, you know, I had to renew my car lease, and I decided to get a new car. And, you know, they gave me too many choices on what color it was gonna be. So instead of actually asking myself what color car I wanted to have, I crowdsourced my decision.
So I texted like five of my best friends. And I told I said, like, Here are the options, can you guys, you know, pick the color car I should get. And I think that says a lot about where our comfort level is. So you know, folks who are listening to this, what’s your default is your default, my perception, or is your default, others perception, or both, or neither.
Brett Bartholomew 18:33
A quick break in the action here. I hope you will join us in our charitable drive this holiday season. If you go to artofcoaching.com/booksale, that’s artofcoaching.com/booksale, you can get a signed copy of my book, Conscious Coaching for well, more than half off what you would get on the Amazon price. And proceeds will go to charity, we have given to St. Jude’s Hospital, the Leukemia Lymphoma Foundation and the Alzheimer’s Association.
And this is something that we do this time of year, every year, and it will end December 31. So please go to artofcoaching.com/booksale now. And you can get a signed personalized copy of my book Conscious Coaching. It doesn’t matter what industry you’re in, even though some of the terminology is written when I was a strength and conditioning coach, this book has been used by the likes of Microsoft, Facebook, and a ton of other organizations around the world.
Why? Because we know that anything that has to deal with people and leadership and managers crosses over. We’re talking about how to interact with people more effectively. There is not a profession or a situation in this world that does not benefit from that. So please go to artofcoaching.com/booksale now. Hey, also make sure that you go to artofcoaching.com/events right now to check all the dates of our workshops that are happening all across the world and early bird discounts
Sydney, Australia I’m looking at You guys, because early bird discounts are ending soon. So if you want to come to our Australia workshop, please make sure to go to artofcoaching.com/events, now. Now if you weren’t aware that we have live events we do, and why did we start them simple, because we know that real learning happens when things are hands on. I spent a lot of money on professional development throughout my career. And oftentimes, I’d end up in a nondescript conference room with 300 other people, and they would just parade a bunch of speakers out there who had all give just a 60 minute barrage of information.
They’re great, but it’s hard to apply those things, we go the opposite way. Everything we do is small. We’re talking sometimes 8 10 15 20 people and we limited it that because we use improv at our workshops, we use video reviews, we break everybody up into pods, so people can network in a more deep, meaningful level. So they can learn in a deeper level. So they can do everything at a deeper level. So if you really enjoy getting around some high level people, you enjoy some hands on experience, you enjoy personalized attention, you enjoy true learning, go to artofcoaching.com/events right now.
Dr. Tasha Eurich 21:18
What’s your default? Is your default, my perception? Or is your default, others perception? Or both? Or neither each of those is going to be is going to inform us. So in that case with your client, their journey might be trying to shift the focus a little bit more towards internal self awareness. But yeah, I think that’s a great example.
Brett Bartholomew 21:39
And by the way, that would be anybody watching this on YouTube, that would be an intimidating question to ask for you. Because you have quite the color palette behind you. If anybody sees the book
Dr. Tasha Eurich 21:50
I like all the color.
Brett Bartholomew 21:51
Yeah, no, that’s good. I think you know, but it’s funny, because that’s something that even along those same lines, I’ve found doing podcasts, I mean, we’re beyond 250 episodes, and you saw this before the show, there’s so many different audiences, you want to please and I found myself getting into this trap. One, I’ve been on bad podcasts before. So as somebody that’s hosting you, I want you to know that you are appreciated, your work will be honored and that you have a great experience.
On the other hand, you always feel a responsibility to your audience, people that are going to have a wide range of engagement levels, people that might be just starting down this journey, somebody that might be 30 years in their profession, and needs a little bit something different. And then there’s the selfish questions you as the host want to ask, you know, and so when you’re attuned to all these things, that insight and that introspection, and just filtering out all that noise, it can be created. So you keep the task at hand can be really tough.
And so that’s an area your book helped me with as well. Have you found that as well, when you come on and you share. I mean, you’ve been on so many shows, you do this to you? How do you filter out that noise when you have a varied audience? And you’re trying to serve multiple purposes at once?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 22:55
Hmm, wow. Okay, so the first thing I’ll say is I’m not sure I have the perfect answer to that,
Brett Bartholomew 23:00
We don’t want.
Dr. Tasha Eurich 23:03
Yeah, who wants perfection, it’s so boring. You know, I almost think that here’s a good way to kind of tackle this, we found in our research, quantitatively and qualitatively, that people who are self aware, also tend to be more empathetic. And, you know, everybody argues about the exact definition of empathy. And frankly, I don’t really care about that, because I don’t think it’s that important. But what I do care about is the behaviors of empathy.
And, you know, what I try to hold myself to really, in all the interactions I have is, what are the people who are listening to this? Or what is the other person I’m talking to? What is their emotional experience? And, you know, as an example, I do a lot of keynote speaking. And if I’m talking to a sales team, versus a team of engineers, they’re going to be jazzed by really different things, right. And to your point, no audience is totally homogeneous anyway, or homogeneous anyway.
But it’s kind of like hitting it down the middle and get it getting my best mental representation of who I think my audience is. Knowing that sometimes I’m going to be wrong. I’m going to miss the mark. But I’m at least trying to put myself in other people’s shoes. Because at the end of the day, we’re all humans, right? And if we’re considering other people’s emotional experience, it’s almost like we can’t go wrong if we’re trying.
Brett Bartholomew 24:31
Yeah, I think that’s a great answer. I think that you know, people again, there’s so much noise internally, whenever we have wide audiences and we want to serve them all. We want to provide value. I think any insight that just helps people, you know, think about that a little bit more clearly helps, you know, something that I hope I wasn’t wrong about my research and a member of my research team found out about you, Ali Kershner is you’re not a journaler. First of all, before I ask the question, is that correct?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 24:56
I did go through a phase in college of like, really just embarrassing journaling for about three years, but I got off it very quickly.
Brett Bartholomew 25:06
And the reason I bring this up and we like to bounce between kind of this stuff with your book and your research and also the person, right, because I think that stuff is powerful. But I relate to that so heavily, you know, it’s interesting, there’s been this movement, and we’re going to talk about the call to knee movement that you mentioned in your book, in other words in a moment, but like
I just feel like there’s this been this gross movement over the past 10 years that almost as like, if you’re not journaling, you’re not doing it, right. It’s part of this, like, perfect morning routine. And what people like to think is self awareness. But you found the opposite. Actually, you’ve found that the most self aware people don’t Journal Of course, I know that you’re not casting aspersions on people that do. So I’m just throwing that but I would love for you to, like, get into that. Because I’ve always just felt like that. I’m like, I don’t journal. I haven’t that hasn’t really been a problem. For me, I record my thoughts and other ways, dive into this a little bit, if you wouldn’t mind.
Dr. Tasha Eurich 25:56
Yes, this is important. So let me start at like a 50,000 foot perspective, we discovered that there is not a positive relationship between the amount of time we invest in exploring ourselves, and the extent to which we actually know ourselves. So shorthand of that is thinking isn’t knowing
You could spend you know, think about somebody who spends maybe they’re into psychoanalysis and they spend, you know, four hours a week on their analyst couch, just because they do that doesn’t automatically earn them self awareness. Sometimes it can. Sometimes it can’t. And that’s part of what our research wanted to clarify. But it also, I think, it’s an assumption that we make that if I just focus on myself all know, myself. We found in our research, but actually, let me just quickly tell you about this.
So one, one part of our overall program, was finding people who didn’t start out as self aware, but who, through some remarkable process that they attest to, and that someone who knows them well can attest to, they somehow dramatically improve their self awareness, we sort of jokingly started to call them self awareness, unicorns, but that term ended up sticking. So when I say self awareness, unicorns, this refers to that small group of people we found, it was only 50, five zero out of 1000s. That made that dramatic transformation and self awareness.
And as we started to study them, you know, we sort of did a deeper dive, it was a lot of interviews, really exhaustive, and we surveyed them. We found, for example, that they didn’t necessarily spend any more time than the average person on self awareness, and yet, they were getting more out of it. So there’s nobody I know who doesn’t want that invest the least amount of time possible to get the biggest return possible. And journaling is a good example. There is danger. So just to clarify, I’m not saying that journaling doesn’t help.
What I am saying is that just because we journal doesn’t mean we’re going to get more self aware. I will say just to kind of take that to its most extreme point is journaling too much can actually hurt our self awareness. Because what happens is we start to, you know, it’s to your point earlier, like overanalyze things. Or there’s even some evidence that, from others research that when we start to overthink the good things that happened to us, it can get us into a weird headspace, right, where we’re, like, detached from what’s happening to us. We’re not enjoying it and experiencing it.
So when we looked at who journaled we found that you know, many of our self awareness, unicorns journaled, but they did it in a specific way that helps them get insight out of the experience. So maybe we can talk about that. But as somebody who finds journaling, like kind of tedious on a regular basis, that was really reassuring to me that I can still maybe someday be self aware. Without having to devote, you know, 30 minutes at 6am Every day.
Brett Bartholomew 29:13
Well, and again, it’s what drew me to your work is we abhor one size fits all kind of Maxim’s, especially in this space today, right? Because there’s so much of it, right? In the leadership space, and the coaching space and all this stuff. I don’t want to say self help, because that’s reductive, but just the improvement side of things. And really, I don’t think what you’re saying should be too much of a shock to people. It’s along the same lines of knowledge and wisdom, right?
People can read books, they can listen to podcasts. And it doesn’t behoove me to say this, you have a book, I have a book, I have a podcast and that doesn’t mean that you have acquired a skill, it means that hey, I should open my eyes and dig a little bit deeper in this. I mean, it goes back now he meant it in a different context. But when Descartes was like I think therefore I am, you know, now he was talking about just existing, but people just have to know that experience with a thing. does not mean you have mastery or a full concept of the thing itself, you know, so
Dr. Tasha Eurich 30:05
Precisely, yeah, that’s why like, I always, you know, push back on my clients when they come up with an arbitrary number of years of experience for a leadership position they’re posting, it’s like they could have done this for 20 years and still be absolutely horrible at it. Let’s kind of expand a little bit,
Brett Bartholomew 30:23
No question. The idea of progress can be assumed on page 106. And you talked about the evil twin of introspection, and maybe some of this is related. And I don’t mean to put you on the spot here, because I’m in the midst of writing my second book, and I know there’s a lot of stories and remembering every detail can be a lot. But you mentioned a woman named Marsha Donsinger, did I pronounced that right?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 30:44
Yes.
Brett Bartholomew 30:45
Okay. Would you mind elaborating on the case study? And if you want to just start with what is the evil twin of introspection? What do you mean by that in general? And then whether it’s Marcia’s story or any other narrative that you want to use to kind of touch base on what that evil twin is and how it can manifest in our lives? Would you mind elaborating on that?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 31:03
Yes, the evil twin of self awareness is rumination. rumination happens when we start to question ourselves in a way that we’re focusing on our weaknesses or our fears. Or, you know, even the things we did that were not up to the standards that we normally would I think we’ve all had this experience, right? Maybe you go to a party, and you’re you’re riding home with your significant other whoever you went to the party with, and you’re kind of doing a play by play, and then you start to go like, Oh, man, as you’re thinking about it. I really, oh, I really talked way too much tonight. Why did I do that?
But everybody’s, oh, my God, and I just met that new person that, you know, maybe they could be a key business contact. And now they think that I’m self absorbed, yes, of course, they think I’m self absorbed. And then you start to get into this like deeper place. I call it being kicked down the rabbit hole of rumination, where you’re now you’re starting to question your worthiness as a human being, you know, your feedback, being able to be loved by others, or be you know, your your future success.
And it sounds silly when I explain it that way. But I think hopefully, everybody, well not hopefully, I’m sure that everyone who’s listening to this has had that experience where you just have one innocent thought. And then before you know it, you’re down the rabbit hole. The story about Marsha was she she basically after surviving cancer, she started a nonprofit organization that was designed to help people communicate their experience and their progress with their friends and family in one place.
And she you know, as the CEO, they would kind of trot her out at fundraising events and one fundraising event. They’d had it the year before. And her speech had gotten a standing ovation. And she was just super proud and super excited. And she came out that next year. And for some reason, even during the speech, she just wasn’t feeling like it was landing. And at the end, she got some polite applause. So then she goes home and does what I just mentioned. She’s like processing this with the person she’s dating at the time, and just getting deeper and deeper into the hole.
So a couple of weeks go by, and her team, you know, has a meeting about the fundraiser, how did it go. And they told her something that was truly shocking. And that something was that after that speech that she made that she thought she bombed miserably. They had raised more money than they ever had at any event in the past. And Marsha went, Hmm, there are a couple things I’m going to take away from this as ever the self awareness unicorn, yeah.
The first was not everything I do. It matters as much to me or to others as it does to me. And maybe I’m not always going to be completely accurate or without bias and how I see myself. And I just think that’s so powerful, right, because part of the reason we ruminate is we think that other people are thinking about us as much as we’re thinking about ourselves. And the good news is, that’s not true.
Brett Bartholomew 34:19
Yeah. No spot. Yeah, just that spotlight effect too. And all the other biases that lend itself to that. I mean, it’s something I can relate to wholeheartedly whether it’s speaking or podcasting, there’s some times where I think, Well, that wasn’t one of my worst performances on that. And then I realized people thought it was one of the best. I mean, almost every time I think that there’s an interview or something else, and of course, right. It’s that bias because we can internalize those mistakes. We understand, like there was a flub, that maybe you did have but somebody else they saw you as more relatable.
You know what even goes into like just communication and disfluencies, right? There’s this fine line where if you’re just this perfect communicator or orator, or if you’re you’re seemingly flawless. I mean, you’re less relatable. But then people if they make a mistake, or whether it’s talking too much at a party meeting, somebody might have found you fascinating. And I love just the rumination is such a it’s the perfect word for it.
And you do get down that downward spiral. And then that impacts I would imagine, as you talked about in page 85, you know, then that impacts our self presentation, something that we’re always managing to a degree, but we can overcorrect and under correct and, you know, I wonder just because I’m fascinated getting to know you more, were there areas in your life you struggled with this more whether it was working in corporate America, or where you first started as an entrepreneur, maybe when you were writing your book? What are some areas that you personally struggled with this the most? If you wouldn’t mind sharing one or two?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 35:41
Yeah, well, I’ll actually share something recently. Because these are things that I don’t think go away. I’ve been waiting for the last 20 years for all thoughts of like, self doubt, and self deprecation to go away. And I feel like I might be waiting forever. So that’s why I’m giving a recent example. So this June, I got a an absolutely horrible case of COVID, I almost died. Oh, wow. And I was very, very, just everything about me was was not right, for several months after, but I tried to get back on the road speaking as soon as I could, because it, it fills my soul. And you know, sometimes I think like, who would I be if I wasn’t that person, because I just love what I do.
But I noticed that because I fell off my game. I wasn’t telling myself, Tasha, you’ve literally been doing this for 20 years, your muscle memory alone is going to get you where you need to go. I was told I had this inner monologue that would happen, you know, this is for probably a couple of months. That would tell me, do you see that guy in the back? He’s on his phone, you probably would have had him paying attention before, but you’re just off your game. Or you just told that joke, and you totally messed it up? Did you notice that no one laughed.
And then I noticed I’d get offstage. And I would spend the rest of the night just kind of criticizing myself and looking at all the things I did wrong. Now, what’s interesting is for people like us, we actually have data that we can compare our own hypotheses to, which are in the form of audience evaluations. And you know, what I say that I had a couple of events that were, you know, like, 90%, what they would normally be, you know, probably, but for the, for the most part, the ratings were just as good as pre COVID Me.
And I think at times like that, you know, we may or may not have objective data, but to take a step back and say, Is there a potential reason that I’m being unnecessarily unfair to myself? Another thing that we can do I call this the friend test is, what would I say what I just said to myself, to someone that I love and respect? And if the answer is no, that’s a data point. That’s, you know, not necessarily something to get sucked into on its own, and why am I doing this?
But really, to just say, Okay, maybe for tonight, I could put a pause on all this, you know, self flagellation, maybe tomorrow, I can come back to it, and see if I have a different perspective. And I think breaking that cycle, just as kind of a summary comment is super important there, especially if we’re in the habit of doing those things.
Brett Bartholomew 38:28
Yeah, no, I think that’s a wonderful example. And part of me, the nerd in me and the researcher and me wonders, too, if that is only exacerbated or amplified by a certain volume of outputs, meaning that, you know, let’s say, if there were two of the same people, two Tashas, right, and one is speaking or putting out more information than the other, right, whether that’s through social media or another book, or just a variety of interviews. And then the other one, it has maybe a third of that volume of output, if that is exacerbated, I mean, I’d have to imagine, you know, it’s tough to look at, because I want to in that muscle memory, as you put it, it gets better. You know, on the other hand, how there’s more data points for you to be self critical or ruminate about. Yeah, am I right?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 39:09
Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you’re, you’re going out of habit. So you have a lot of time and space to think about all the things you’re doing wrong. Yeah, you’re exactly right.
Brett Bartholomew 39:17
Yeah, well, and that leads me to this, and there’s still so much we’re gonna get to in terms of pillars of self awareness, and everything like that. So I want to better communicate that to you. But since we’re on this point, you know, since we can’t always trust our inner voice, or that the rumination aspect side of things, when it comes to feedback, you know, we’ve done several episodes oon getting better feedback, feedback is one of these, you know, it’s the thing that’s constantly talked about in the leadership space, what is great feedback, who should be turned to feedback?
I know you have some really great frameworks and some talking points in your book about who we should seek feedback from, how you refer to those kinds of people. Would you mind and feel free to start wherever it takes us where you want, but for anybody listening, that’s thinking, Hey, I just want to get better feedback. It’s not Coming from my job, you know, I feel like my friends or my parents are telling you what I want to hear what are some principles of getting some great feedback?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 40:08
The first thing I’d say is, if you’re wondering about that you’re probably right. Because what we know is human beings are wired to avoid sharing uncomfortable information about others to others, to the point where in some situations, people will decide to out and out lie over actually just telling the truth. And you know, it’s the classic example of your friend gets a new haircut, and it’s just the most horrible haircut you’ve ever seen. And they asked there, they are worried too. And they ask you, and you say, oh, no, no, it’s really different. It looks great on you. Right?
So as much as the people around us love us, you know, in our families, if we’re close to the folks, we work with our colleagues, they are likely withholding in some type of information, that if we knew what it was, we would have greater power control, success, etc. So there’s, as you said, there’s a ton of information out there that I’m not sure I can add to, to be honest on on how to get feedback. You know, there’s endless books and courses and articles on how to ask for feedback.
What we discovered in our research was, that’s important, certainly. But probably the more important question, or the more important skill to develop is something that most people are totally forgetting, or not even thinking about, which is, who are getting feedback from, who are the people that we’re asking for feedback from? If let’s say, Okay, so let’s say you pick the wrong people, there’s a couple things that could happen. The first thing that can happen is you choose someone, you know, let’s say it’s at work, who has some kind of agenda.
And the agenda is maybe to get your job or to get your resources or just some kind of zero sum game philosophy that we don’t share, but that they might have. So maybe their feedback is going to be a little biased, it’s going to be given to you not in the best spirit of your success. So that’s probably less likely, the more likely scenario of getting feedback from the wrong people is, it’s just like a kabuki theater performance, where you’re spending your time having this conversation, and this person is just telling you what they think you want to hear.
Usually, that’s not because they’re a bad person, or, you know, because they can’t, it’s because for some reason, they have chosen to not be forthright with you. And you know, again, that has nothing to do necessarily with even their love for you, or their affection for you. It just, you know, sometimes especially certain people are less likely to be honest. So for that reason, what we recommend is to find it’s basically two criteria. And the term that I use is loving critics. So let me just quickly break that down.
We need to make sure that people we ask for feedback from have our best interests at heart. That’s what the loving part is. They don’t have to be our best friends or our best friends at work. They don’t have to be someone we’ve been hanging out socially with. But they have to be on our side. What I would suggest is Go with your gut on that, don’t overthink it, they you know, if you have a sense in your gut, that they’re on your side, you can sort of check off that loving box
The credit box is a little harder. What that means is you believe to the best of your ability, that that person will tell you the truth, especially when it’s hard to hear. Especially when it’s hard to hear. And there are two ways you can conclude this. Number one ideally is they’ve given you candid feedback in the past, that’s a slam dunk. But the second, even if they haven’t given you candid feedback, personally, everybody knows these people. It’s the people who play devil’s advocate and meetings, the people who are willing to say what no one else is saying, but everybody is thinking
They’re the people that you know, might even have a label of like a little bit difficult because they’re just contrarians. Those are the best people to you know, again, as long as they’re on your team to ask for feedback from and the reason is, you’re going to get a lot of good data, without a lot of massaging of the situation. It’s efficient and effective, which again, I know is something we all collectively love. But that would be Yeah, sort of where I’d start. Is there anything that you wanted to expand on with that?
Brett Bartholomew 44:40
No, I think what I was really happy about and yet it’s, it’s I’m gonna keep saying what drew me to your work is the way you tackled things in a counter conventional approach, meaning that people do tend to ask, Hey, what are principles for the best feedback here like timeout? We all know that one of the most influential things in our lives in any context is the people that were around So let’s look at the question differently.
Let’s think about who are you getting feedback from? Because the principles of how to get great feedback matter very little, if you’re not around the people that are capable of giving you that feedback in those ways. And so, you know, that’s yeah, it’s just, it’s what I appreciate. I think that there are certain things that we know that great feedback is not now, right. Like, we know that it’s not the sandwich technique, because people are always waiting for the bus, it’s brutal.
I think that something that you do an excellent job and in a different context, talking about and then page 166, for anybody that’s got your book, and, and believe me, we’re going to link the heck out of it is, you know, it’s the same principle as when asking great questions like be specific, when somebody says, Hey, could you give me feedback on my website? Could you give me feedback on this? Or that I’m like, timeout, that’s not play that game, you know, what aspect of your site how easy it is to navigate to understand your headline to do this.
So I think, you know, one thing I always tell people is, you know, if you want great feedback, be very specific with your question, because you don’t have time to waste. Neither do I. And that’s, you know, our clients used to speaking that way. We’re just mean it from there as an economy to the frankness of our language, right. But it’s also true, like, don’t ask for feedback, and you don’t want some pushback.
So I think that the thing that you put in there of just saying, hey, get yourself around the right, folks. And you define very clearly what you mean by the right, folks, is a critical thing. So that’s how I book in that. Anything I said there that you want to end off of before we go to the next thing?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 46:28
No, I love it. I mean, I think ultimately, what we’re all after is the biggest bang for our buck, right? With the least time invested. And you know, to your point, you could have the like, most perfect quote unquote, feedback conversation, but if you’re having it with the wrong person, you’re literally wasting your time and their time.
Brett Bartholomew 46:47
Yeah. And it’s, you know, it’s scary, because I think sometimes people are fine with that kind of general feedback, because they, there are some folks that want to act like they’re doing that thing that they’re getting feedback, but in reality, yes, you know,
Dr. Tasha Eurich 47:00
Yeah, to check it off the list. Yeah. Aren’t I a successful human? I asked for feedback.
Brett Bartholomew 47:05
Yeah, exactly. It leads me to another thing that I think you did extraordinarily well, from a counter conventional standpoint of, you know, and this is no disrespect to Simon Sinek and start with why but that started this, you know, everybody, then oh, what’s your why, and why, and why? And you just think when asking questions, or when thinking about your business, you know, your main vision statement or whatever, that everything has to start with why?
Then you say, ah, timeout, when it comes to self awareness, or when it comes to some other questions that we should ask ourselves or ask in general that have more impact? It really might not be why, but what now I’m being intentionally vague there, because I’d love for you to elaborate on that. But you know, how do the questions we ask ourselves, affect our awareness in terms of that, what versus why and what your research has found there as well?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 47:51
Sure. And if I forget, at the end of my answer, to circle back to a conversation I have with Simon about this, just remind me just made a note. So let me take a step back again, we can connect this in terms of what we have already talked about a little bit with the idea of, you know, not wanting to step into the wrong rabbit hole when we’re introspecting. Whether it’s through journaling, whether it’s just our inner monologue. And our research has discovered along with others, actually, that the questions we ask ourselves, even these tiny, nuanced differences in language can either lead us down the rabbit hole, or up into the light of awareness.
The central distinction is asking fewer why questions in order to achieve greater self awareness? And asking more what questions and for anybody on here who is, you know, kind of a introspection aficionado? You’re probably horrified with what I just said, what you’re telling me. I can’t ask why. What about the five why’s What about Simon Sinek. And all of that is is fair. And it was the reaction that I had when we first found this in our data. So this goes back to one of the first samples that we collected, it was maybe about 300 people.
And we discovered that the more time people spent reflecting about themselves, not only were they less self aware, but they were worse off in some way. They were more stressed, more anxious, more depressed, less confident, less in control of their lives. And we were like, wait a minute, what is this about? Like, how should I be writing a book about self delusion and self awareness? And as we dove into the transcripts with our self awareness, unicorns, we started to understand what the issue was.
So the issue as it turns out, wasn’t that introspection in it of itself is bad or wrong. It’s that most people with the best of intentions are doing it wrong. And the distinction between what and why actually matters pretty greatly. So an example, let me think of a good one. Here’s one, Nathan, we’ll call him Nathan is one of our self awareness unicorns who helped us understand kind of what this key difference was. And he was in at the time, a really terrible job, it just wasn’t a fit for him. He didn’t feel like the culture was consistent with who he was.
But instead of going home every day and asking, Why do I hate my job? Which would be a fair question introspectively. Nathan asked himself a slightly different version, which is, what do I want instead? And what he realized was, you know, that question was able to guide him into his desired future state. So instead of focusing on all the things that are wrong, and why they’re wrong, to figure out what what he wanted to be different moving forward. And that’s, I think, a great illustration
And by the way, of course, he found his dream job, I think he’s still there, the last time I checked, and all as well. All of us can get into the rabbit hole without really even knowing it and sort of asking these innocent questions. And that’s why I think what versus why gives us a really practical roadmap. And if anybody’s listening to this, and they’re kind of skeptical, like, that seems like a really small difference, what I think you’ll find if you start to road test this, you know, first asking fewer, why questions, and then asking more what questions is, it’s the difference between being victimized and being powerful.
It’s the difference between focusing on all the things that are irreparably wrong, and finding new potential. It’s the difference between being emotional, and rational. And so I’m sort of constantly amazed at hearing from people literally all around the world who have used this tool, and even using it myself, and seeing just the huge difference it makes not just in our self awareness, but in our well being in general.
Brett Bartholomew 52:16
Yeah, well, I mean, I think that this lends itself to, again, just the specificity question. So, you know, let’s say somebody said, you know, and along the lines, what, if they’re thinking, why, you know, why do I want to quit my job? Or why do I hate my job? Instead, asking yourself, well, what components would need to be, you know, present within the job to make me feel really fulfilled, that just takes you down a more specific action oriented, to your point, empowered, instead of a victimized thing? Or, you know, somebody saying, Why am I unhappy in my relationship?
Well, what made you happy or fulfilled in this relationship to begin with? So I think it’s pretty clear in what you say, and we don’t do that. We don’t do this on the podcast, where we just agree with the author’s and whatever we just don’t believe in those kinds of
Dr. Tasha Eurich 53:00
I can’t imagine you would, yeah
Brett Bartholomew 53:02
It’s just not, you know, it doesn’t help anybody. But I think anybody that just takes a moment, and starts actually taking some questions in their head and putting them in a wide context versus a white context, you’ll find that it makes you write down more specific information. I mean, somebody the other day just said, they wanted to go, oh, we want you to know about because we’re going to do an in service at this organization. And they sent us a bunch of information says, well, we want you to know our why. So you understand this, and this and this.
And I said, Okay, well, but what made you comprise this vision to begin with? What made you choose these words? What made you seek out that kind of differentiation? Even that just getting there like, well, you know, those are great things, we actually should go back to that because we’ve had this slogan now for so long, that we can state it, but it may not be worded the same way in this context.
So I think sometimes before people worry about, Do I agree with what somebody is saying or not, they just need to like, hit pause and try it for themselves. So they can have first hand experience with the thing and this suggestion.
Dr. Tasha Eurich 54:04
Exactly, exactly. I think that’s great. And actually, maybe I can build on that a little bit. Because for this tool, this is something I do in my speaking pretty often is give people a chance to apply it to themselves. So here’s what I challenge everybody to think about is first, I’m sure there’s no shortage, come up with a challenge or a problem that you’re facing right now. And just think about it. And then you know, either now or when you’re finished listening to this, challenge yourself, you know, get a pen and paper and actually write down first A why question that you could ask about the situation, or that you might have asked about the situation, and then actually cross it out.
And next to it and it’s place. Challenge yourself to come up with at least one or two what questions right so you do the why question, cross it out, and then challenge yourself to write don’t at least two what questions, I think, even maybe in a different way than hearing us talk about it, you’re going to something’s gonna click Yeah. And you’re gonna go, oh, this, you know, this is not the sole answer to my self awareness. But this is something that I can really operationalize on a daily basis. That’s gonna take me No, more time than what I was doing already. But it’s gonna give me you know, just a huge incremental benefit from what I was doing before.
Brett Bartholomew 55:27
No question. I mean, wirh the why we started this podcast is we wanted to talk about things in leadership and coaching that were typically swept under the rug or not investigated more deeply. But the one is what makes that practical, you know, the one okay, what kind of questions are we going to ask? What style of format is, you know, the podcasts going to take place? What kind of people are we going to have on here, people that don’t want to shy away from tough questions, right, like, that lends itself down the clarity kind of rabbit hole in a good sense.
I would like to go back to just to remind you, you know, I’d love to hear more about when you spoke to Simon, what he said about this? Because I would imagine it would have to be something I mean, the guy wrote a book called The Infinite game. So I imagine he didn’t look at this unilaterally either. But yeah, I mean, educate us on what he said in that interaction, if you wouldn’t mind giving us a peek behind the curtain?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 56:13
Sure, you know, I should actually memorize his response, because I talked about this, you know, not infrequently, and I was just trying to secretly search to see if I could find the email from him. But I probably won’t say it as well as he did. But the essence of his response, because I was like, Hey, listen, you know, you’re talking about why I’m talking about what I actually think we agree more than people think we don’t?
And he said, Yes, absolutely. He said, everything that you talked about, is consistent with the Start With Why model because I think the way he explained it was the why is sort of the the goal. But you have to use the what to get to the why. And there were a couple other nuances he had. But I think that was the one that stood out for me the most is the why is kind of this, it’s almost like a process that you put yourself through, it’s almost like a verb. But in doing that, the what questions are going to give you the best information? Sure.
Brett Bartholomew 57:12
Yeah. I mean, just like I mean, when you write your books, you know, you have the why of the book. But every case study, every chapter, all these things have to have the What the So What especially I understand like, Okay, let’s look at the table of contents. And, again, pardon the ran, it’s just because I’m in book number two right now. And so I have to think about this stuff all the time, because I’m at that point where I want to throw everything out the window, and I’ve got to go back to fundamentals.
Right. So I look at this and I think of Alright, here’s all the chapters you have in your book, The why those chapters need to be there is one thing, but the what’s going to be in those chapters, what is it going to teach to the readers? What is going to allow them to apply? It is what makes your book Great, you know, so I think that everything that you speak about in that is pretty damn operational for anybody that even just, you know, thinks about it for five seconds. I think that’s great. All right. I want to be conscious of time. So a couple more questions. You game to swit code switch a little bit?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 58:07
Yeah, sure.
Brett Bartholomew 58:08
Okay, perfect. Now, when we go back to some of these things, and this is where I have to be, I have to think of my why and I what my what, because there’s always a lot of things I want to ask you. Let’s take a timeout. We’ve talked about self awareness, introspection, rumination, we’ve talked about a lot of these things. Just let’s bring back everybody to core principles. What are some of these core principles or core tenets of self awareness? If somebody’s like, man, okay, there’s a book, there’s the podcasts, there’s everything that you guys are talking about. There’s all these other pieces. But what are really the Seven Pillars of self awareness or insight that just helped bring everybody back to a sound mental model in case they start getting back into the weeds?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 58:50
Yes, that’s great. That’s a great way to kind of start to close up. So the Seven Pillars of self awareness are the seven specific types of self knowledge that separate the aware from everybody else who’s on the journey. And by the way, you can never really be done. And that’s partly what makes this so exciting. But it also means you don’t have to push yourself or stress yourself out too much to go from zero to 60 overnight. The first pillar is knowing our values, what are the principles that we want to live our lives by?
Can you for example, state, your top two values, there are a ton of values models out there. So I’m sure with a quick Google if this is something you feel like you could improve. It’s a very tangible way of starting. The second pillar is knowing our passions. What are those things that make us just want to leap out of bed in the morning? And how can we design our lives in order to do that as much as possible? So knowing what our passions are, the third is knowing our aspirations.
And this isn’t just what quote unquote, just what we want to achieve in our lives, but it’s what’s the experience It’s that we want to have, what’s the dent we want to make in the universe to use Steve Jobs as a term? The next so he said values, passions, aspirations. The next is fit. And fit has to do with getting a better understanding of the types of people and environments that give you energy versus take away energy. You know, we hear the term energy vampires, like even that question, who are the people that suck the life out of me whenever I’m around them? And what do they have in common?
Good luck. That’s a good, good self awareness question around fit. The next is our reactions. And our reactions are a little bit nuanced. So this is about both are in the moment, thoughts, feelings, and behaviors, just kind of being aware of them. And then also, knowing that those things are often a reflection of our strengths and weaknesses, knowing our strengths and our weaknesses. So and then the other the seventh is patterns, patterns are consistent ways of behaving over time. You know, you might think of it as our personality, or you might think about it as, when I am an X situation, I always or I frequently why, right.
So like similar situations, similar behavior. And then last, but certainly not least, is impact. That’s the final pillar. And it really is about knowing the impact that you have on others, knowing what people think about how you’re showing up.
Brett Bartholomew 1:01:27
That’s perfect. And guys, remember, if you’re listening, obviously, you’re listening, make sure you go to artofcoaching.com/podcastreflections, and those pillars, along with more links to Tasha’s work will be included in those free podcast reflections for you. Because it is always helpful to go back to base principles. Whenever you have so much rich information. This helps you to stay in the tactical side of this stuff and make sure that you don’t get lost.
All right, final two questions. One is I had to ask you about this. And I love that at the beginning, you didn’t fall for the trap. I talked about how you’re a worldwide expert in self awareness and insight. And you did it perfectly. You’re like, Hey, I’m still on this journey as well. It’s that old Ernest Hemingway. We’re all apprentices in a craft that will never master.
You know, you mentioned that there are many moments that you have learned that you’re not as self aware, as you think. Now you hinted that there was this notable insight being a drunk admission from a friend and a dive bar. This is something I have to ask more about. Are you comfortable going into that?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 1:02:28
Well, the terrible thing is, I can’t tell you the story in three minutes. So we almost have to tell people to read the book.
Brett Bartholomew 1:02:35
That’s fine. That’s easy. Okay, we can do that.
Dr. Tasha Eurich 1:02:38
But it’s worth it, I promise. And if nothing else, it will reaffirm that truly, we are all on this journey together. And no matter where you start, knowing is always better than not knowing in my opinion.
Brett Bartholomew 1:02:52
Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, and now this is an easy one that we can do in one minute. We want to support you, you gave us so much time and information and insight for free, that time is not free for you. Where is the number one place we can all go right now to support you, your work and get more into it?
Dr. Tasha Eurich 1:03:13
I love the way you ask that question that’s so kind and generous. But let me give you a win win. Because that’s what I believe in. When when insight came out, which was several years ago, now, we put together a subset of our you know, 70 plus item, empirically validated self awareness assessment. That is basically it’s 14 questions. And the system that we use collects your answers, which takes about five minutes about yourself, it collects answers from someone you send it to who knows you well. And then you get a report, that’s, you know, pretty simple and high level but also telling you more about your internal and external self awareness, as well as a couple of really practical things you can do to act on it if you choose.
So, you know, we were sort of only going to use that for the book launch. But several years later, and literally hundreds of 1000s of people have taken it. And it just it’s something that that we keep out there to help make the world a little bit less a little bit more self aware for people that are ready to take that journey. So if anybody wants to take that, it’ll link to all the other stuff you could ever possibly want to know about what it is that I do. But it’s at www.insight/quiz.com www.insight/quiz.com .
Brett Bartholomew 1:04:27
All right, and everybody remember this is linked in the show notes. And her book Insight is available worldwide on Amazon. And guess what if you’re like, I don’t do Amazon, Google it. It is available all over the world support our authors support our guests support those that want to spread this information. Dr. Eurich thank you for being a good sport. Thank you for being so engaging and informed and I just appreciate your time immensely.
Dr. Tasha Eurich 1:04:50
Thank you. This is a wonderful conversation. It was my honor.
Brett Bartholomew 1:04:54
Guys. Until next time, Brett Bartholomew, the art of coaching podcast. We’ll see you soon.
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