E13 | Jamie Lafler: Patience, Self-Presentation & Employability - Art Of Coaching™

TRANSCRIPT

Brett Bartholomew

Hey, everyone, it’s Brett Bartholomew. And I hope this finds your week off to a great start. Before you listen to this episode, I’d really appreciate it if you would take the time to leave an iTunes review. Now here’s the thing, we try to keep this podcast, sponsor free, we try to keep it ad free, you know, we don’t make a dime off it. And so your reviews are how, really the podcast spread. So whether it’s young coaches, coaches that are a little bit longer in the game managers, people in different industries, what have you, it’s all word of mouth. So those reviews aren’t really a glorification thing. It’s literally so that the information can find other people like you who may benefit from it. So if you wouldn’t mind just taking two to three minutes, leaving an iTunes review, I’d really appreciate it. Or just tell five friends about the podcast either way, trying to get this information to as many people as possible. And by all means, keep your feedback coming so I can make future shows even better for you. All right, here’s today’s episode,

Hey, everybody, thanks for tuning in to another episode of The art of coaching podcast. There’s been a lot of topics covered recently. But one that I’ve wanted to get to, for a while now and one that I think is absolutely pertinent to whatever profession you’re in whatever stage of your career you’re in. Is that a patience. And it seems like something that if I say patience is not an inherently exciting or novel topic, especially when you have a choice of podcasts that, you know, people are going to interview somebody that created some app or somebody that started some business. I know, there’s a lot of crazy things out there and interesting things we’d like to hear. But I would argue that patience is really the provenance and the birthplace of everything you hope to do, no matter where your career leads you and who I have on today, to me has been the epitome of that she’s a former intern of mine, you know, now she’s been a performance coach for quite a while now. And I’ll let her go into her background. But she has such a unique story. And it was a long, long, long road, and she’s still on it. But she handled it with such grace that there was it was a no brainer to have her as really the person that I think exemplifies this and the importance of it within your professional career. Coach Jamie Lafler. Jamie, welcome to the show.

Jamie Lafler

Hello. Thank you. So pretty great introduction there. I appreciate that, Brett.

Brett Bartholomew

Yeah, no, I mean, at all, can you give everybody kind of a brief, you know, two minute or less run through kind of your background, so they get an idea of who you are, what you’ve done and kind of you know, we’ll get into your path. So don’t feel like you’ve got to consolidate that. But just a brief handshake overview.

Jamie Lafler

Yeah, of course. So my background leading up to where I am now is a little bit different than your standard performance coach or strength and conditioning coach, whatever you want to say. I started through athletic training, I got into athletic training back in high school, actually, in that had been what I wanted to do for my career continuing through life. So from grad school, I went to Missouri State for an undergrad degree in athletic training and sports medicine, really liked it was a little confused with what I wanted to do for grad school, whether that was go for my education, or go for the experience of a grad assistantship. To me an education is something that can never be taken away from you. So that’s what I wanted to go for. So from there, I went out to San Diego State University, where I studied exercise physiology, and I interned or excuse me, I was a grad assistant at University of San Diego, doing athletic training there. At that time, I realized it’s not quite what you know all the time, but who you know, within sports medicine with an athletic training or sports performance that can really open doors for you. So from there, I decided to go ahead and change pace and really go for who you know and go for that graduate assistant side of things. So I went to Arizona State University for another two years of grad school. While there I met some people that really led me to Exos. I worked with water polo and football while I was there and it was a grind. I really attribute a lot of my work ethic to my time in athletic training. Really hard job really rewarding job as well, definitely have to be a special person to stay in that role, especially in the large collegiate setting. After graduating from Arizona State, I wasn’t really sure if I wanted to continue on with that athletic training or venture into something else. Throughout my time in grad school, I started getting a little bit more and more into strength and conditioning. Worked with a really good strength coach at San Diego State for a bit. He was awesome, really, really open to me and cared about me being good within that profession. So I went ahead and intern at the Phoenix facility of Exos, where I work with you, Brett had one hell of a summer work my ass off. And that opened doors for me to go ahead and get a part time position out here at our Dallas facility, worked for 18 months part time, which was a struggle. But finally got on as a full time coach here. And I’ve now been at the Dallas facility for about three and a half years, and continuing to grind and make a name for myself while I’m here.

Brett Bartholomew

Perfect. Well said and pretty many not aware athletes performance or Exos, as it’s known now as an employer of mine for about half a decade, little over half a decade. And as Jamie said, that’s where we met and yeah, we absolutely had a unit. What was it about that summer? I mean, I think we probably had in total, I remember around 70 some odd NFL guys came in that offseason I think in particular, like when we were managing that group and you know, even though you were quote unquote, an intern, you were one heck of an assistant, you know, there were anywhere from 40 to 50 guys that would come in. And if you remember correctly, we had to drive to different fields and do all this stuff. Like, what was it about that summer that you Absolutely remember, it kind of served as one piece of the foundation, you know, of the patience you learned, or at least the way you wanted to attack that problem? Because I know you the way you handled that really stood out to me.

Jamie Lafler

Yeah. So upon the initial start of the internship, I wasn’t even assigned to football. And at that time, I was like, okay, you know, I’m a girl, I get it, you know, I’m an athletic trainer, I get it, like, you know, why would they put

Brett Bartholomew

those assignments by just listening. I was not in charge of those assignments.

Jamie Lafler

And it’s funny, because now I’m the intern coordinator at my facility and I have been for a couple years. And so I get it, like I get it. I you know, we’ll put people with certain groups based off of what they show me that they can do. But at that time, I was like, Hey, I’ve worked with football for numerous years, but I hadn’t yet proven that. So for me, it was like, Okay, I need to look at this from a systematic approach. Like, what I first did was, hey, express my interest, and I really want to work football work in the NFL is a goal of mine, it still is. And so I needed to make that known. And I did when I talked with our intern coordinator, hey, this is what I want to work with. These are the reasons why this is the experience that I have. And from that point, it was okay, he knows this now, but now I need to show that you know, I am worthy of being given, you know, the NFL assignment. So I worked my ass off and about two, three weeks later is like okay, Jamie, you know, you can work with him two days a week. The other time, we need you on this other group like okay, cool. Today’s will work for now. And from there, I continue to work my ass off. You know, got my hands on as many NFL guys as I could, you know, was with you as much as I possibly could, Brett, I’m sure you turn around, you’re like, Oh, there she is, again, just can’t shake her. But I ended up you know, being on that group full time. And we did have a lot of athletes come in and out. It was a hot summer, I remember that. We worked some long hours and the guys that we had wanted to be there, they wanted to put in the extra work. I know that they a lot of them stayed well past the assigned time of the group. And I think that is you know, what was a lot of seeming like we had so many was that not only did we have so many, but they also wanted to be there nearly all day long getting it as much love and as much care as they could from us. And I feel like we really made some improvements with the guys that we had, and hell almost all of them are still in the league today. And that was almost four years ago. Now. That’s yeah, that’s pretty cool.

Brett Bartholomew

Yeah. And I think that’s always something that I like to go back to On this episode, just because I know a lot of young coaches listen to this, or young professionals in general that because there’s a lot of people that just you know, they may be in other fields, but they like to learn from from coaching, just like we like to learn from other leadership fields. But that’s another thing that I just always try to tell people about the private sector and both team setting and private sector are so special for their own reasons. But I feel like I always have to advocate a little bit for the private sector. And I’d say that even if I was right now, the head strength coach of whatever team is, and I do have to do so because people just overlook it. And there’s so many coaches out there without jobs that don’t consider it because maybe they’re told what I was told when I was in the collegiate setting like, Hey, if you go to the private sector, you’ll never get back in or you know, there’s All these horror stories, but you’re working with large groups of athletes, you’re working with less than ideal resources. I mean, how many people helped us out with that group of well over 40 athletes, it was you, me and Matt, what maybe one other person,

Jamie Lafler

it was one or two interns. So we had a bit of a change of pace with the interns over that summer. So it started with two other interns and I hopped on. And then about two weeks later, one of the interns was no longer with us. So ended up being just you, two interns, and that was about it.

Brett Bartholomew

And you get it done. And that’s why I think and you’ll go into this when we when we get to that point. But the one thing that those opportunities have for you is you’re getting it’s not like in collegiate football and no disrespect to anybody in that field. But I just mean, you don’t have five assistants helping you that are all have been through this system have men, you know, grad assistants and interns, you’re kind of the lead coach, and then you got people that are still green. And so it just really grows you as a manager and things. And so I think that’s special. But you touch on one thing, Jamie that you had a purposeful patience. And that’s not a buzzword, I think like we just live during a time of microwave experts where people want what they want. I remember, we had an episode with Brock Biddle. And he told an excellent story about you know, how he had to move on from the field, he couldn’t find a job. And he actually reached out and said, Man, I messed up on my podcast, because there were a lot of people that reached out to me that wanted advice of like, should they leave the field or whatever. And a lot of them were like, they hadn’t even been trying for more than a year or two. He goes, I didn’t tell them that. I was pushing for a job for over five years. And that’s why I left you know, but now people do an internship or one grad assistantship, and they feel like, I should have a role and I should have it now. How can in your opinion, how does that mindset deter them from improving? And what advice do you feel like they should have if they want to make it further along in their career from a patient standpoint,

Jamie Lafler

right? It’s funny Brock and I him and I interned together. And he actually played a huge role in me as a coach, as a young coach, especially, he taught me a lot. And I’m extremely grateful for having worked with him the time that I did. And yeah, that guy, man, he worked hard. He really worked hard. He’s a great person. So when it comes to, you know, wanting things now, wanting exactly what you want, that’s definitely a millennial vibe, as I’m sure you’ve experienced. Whether it’s been with the younger coaches that I’ve worked with, or the interns that I’ve had come on, they don’t see perseverance as a thing that is worthy. A lot of times, I hear the word sacrifice being thrown around, like, Oh, I gotta sacrifice my free time to do this, or I gotta sacrifice, getting paid, like, I’m not getting paid well here during this internship, that’s not how you use the word sacrifice. And it really bothers me, when you’re an intern, when you are, say, a grad assistant, etc, you might not be getting paid a lot. I went through three years of being a GA, and then a whole summer of being an unpaid intern. I know what it’s like to not get paid money, right, I get it. But for me, I was paying it forward to myself through getting this experience. Like yes, now I get a salary, I make money, but I could be doing things, other places making a lot more money, but I necessarily wouldn’t be happy. I get a lot of potential coaches, young people starting to go into school who will message me on Instagram and whatnot, and be like, hey, and I’m really interested in sports performance, or strength conditioning. But how much money does it make? How much money do you get paid? Like, I just don’t know if it’s worth the money or the lack of money. So I might just go and do physical therapy. Or I might just go and do this or do that. And people have their priorities wrong. If that is what they’re going, you know what they’re going for. I’m not in this for money. I never have been if I was in it for money, I wouldn’t be here right now. I’m in it because I love it. And I think that’s what people need to look at is you know, what do you want most? Do you want to make a lot of money or do you want to be happy in life, and you want to be happy in life, you need to put the money thing aside, you need to put your head down you need to grind you need to show grit and perseverance. And that’s what it’s gonna take to get where you want to be and to be happy with the whole microwave expert things take time it takes practice it takes repetition to get good at anything. Whether that’s how to ride a bike when you’re a kid it takes practice it takes repetition or whether that’s learning a new system or squatting or what have you It takes time it takes practice. And that’s something that I think people just kind of skip over. And they expect to be good all the sudden, especially as an intern, and that’s just not how it works.

But Jamie, if I’m devil’s advocate, and let’s say, I’m somebody that, you know, I’m hearing this, and I’ve heard a bunch of coaches say this before, and let’s say we’re role playing, right, and I’m that guy, and I’m like, well, listen, I hear you that it takes practice, but I’ve now done two unpaid internships. I have my degree, I have my certifications. And no, I’m not in it for the money, you know, and but, none of us are and like, I know how to do some of this stuff better than I think some people that I’ve worked with, you know, and that’s, literally the attitude, some of them take, you know, they, see somebody and they think I’m better than because I’ve ever read these books, and oh, my God, you get a lot of that, like, I’ve read these books, I’ve read these articles, and I’ve done it, you know, still, how would you talk to that person that thinks you’re just kind of they hear what you’re saying? And what you’re saying is right. But in their mind, they still aren’t hearing it. All they’re like is yada yada, yada? I’m ready for a job. You don’t know me,

right? People need to take a deep, deep look at yourself and see what’s the true issue? When it comes to that? You know, you’ve set yourself goals, you’ve set yourself possibly a timeline, but how realistic are those goals? How realistic is that timeline? If you’re setting yourself goals, and you’re just not achieving it? Well, what’s wrong? Look at the underlying issue. If something isn’t getting done, there’s something wrong, that’s not being done to get you there. So you need to take a step back and reevaluate, okay, are these goals realistic? Is this something that I can actually make happen, and if it’s not, you need to find yourselves in different goals, or you need to approach that problem with a different solution. And that could be, I don’t know, maybe going back to school, or that could be reaching out to paths connections that you had, I feel like a lot of people don’t like asking for help, or when they do ask for help they do it in the wrong ways. I personally have a really hard time asking for help. I think part of that comes from being a female in this profession where I don’t want to have to ask for help, because I feel like I need to prove myself that I can do everything on my own. But I can’t. And I’ve since realized that. So you know, put your ego to the side, ask for help look out to connections. And if you realize that you don’t have any strong connections anymore, that might be one of your issues, you know, is it you? Is it a personal, like personality trait that you have that is making you unapproachable? Or your communication skills aren’t good? Are you just not a likable person? And sometimes that’s the case. You know, I’ve had interns come in here who, hell they’ve read more books than I have, they might know on paper more than I do. But can they work with people in the same way can they sit down and build a relationship, on the very first day of meeting a new athlete, and then have that athlete trust them and buy in this profession is about building relationships in this profession is about gaining people’s trust. And if you don’t have that trust, if you’re not able to build that camaraderie and that buy in with your athletes, you don’t have anything, it doesn’t matter how much you know, it doesn’t matter how good on paper of a coach you might be, or how good of a program you can write. If you can’t get your athlete to buy into that and to trust you and to like you and to want to be there. You don’t have anything.

Brett Bartholomew

And you’ve hit a lot there. I got like, you’re crushing it, but I want to make sure to point this out. Because sometimes people get in the habit of just listening and not taking notes. So listen to what Jamie said there. You know, if you’re not getting a job, or you’re not getting the job you want, you know, it’s about patience, but also like get creative. It may not be your skill set. And that’s what I always say to that combative person that fires back in the way I pretended to to you, you know, like, Well, what about XY and Z? It’s like, well, what about your approach? Like you said, Are you likable? Like some people don’t really know how they come across. And most people looking for jobs, don’t even build those relationships until they need them. And that was something that I think has always stood out about you is I haven’t seen you in and I don’t think we’ve just spoken I think we’ve spoken in the phone once a couple of times over the past four years. But it’s always been a steady trickle of like touching base and when you touch base, it was not I need something. I need something. I need something. Can you help me like you? Would you remember my wife’s name? You would chat with me about this. And so you know, more often than not, and we just created a resource for this. And it taught it has a whole section on it. But nine times out of 10 When I hear from somebody it’s Hey, Brett, I’m currently fill in the blank, applying for jobs looking for an internship. You’re looking for a graduate assistant, you’re looking into this. Do you know Anybody, and this might be somebody that I haven’t even heard from in 2 3 4 years, or somebody that I’ve never read, this is the most common, somebody that I’ve never even seen coach. So I sit there and I think about it. And it’s not, like I’m trying to damn them, like by saying, Oh, you’re a bad person, it’s the thought process. It’s just you can’t reach out to somebody that hasn’t seen you coach or interacted with you a lot and be like, Hey, do you know anybody that could help me? Because what I always say to them is, hey, you know, great hearing from you transparently, like, I’ve never really seen you coach, or we’ve never worked around each other like, I’m not sure I can help you, you know, and, and then they get mad. And you know, and but it’s just so odd. When you think of, you know,

Mike Boyle said some on his podcast a while ago. And he said, It’s funny, when he gets done giving presentations, he no longer asked like you have any questions. And this is a bit tongue in cheek. But he says like, listen, ask questions. Now. I’m not going to ask them later on, like, because he wants the group to benefit, which I can appreciate. Because as a presenter, that happens a lot. You ask, does anybody have any questions and nobody says anything. And then 15 People come up once you’re done, and they want to ask questions that could have benefited the group. And, you know, this isn’t the case with everybody. But in Mike’s opinion, as he said in the episode, he’s like, I think that’s a little like, self absorbed. He’s like that, people ask questions that could have benefited everybody. And I’ve just been up there speaking for an hour, and nobody wanted to ask. And, you know, I don’t know, I agree with that, in some respects. You know, in other respects, I don’t, because I know somebody has something deeply personal, they may want to talk to you about or even thank you, and I appreciate that. But the point is, going back to your point about approach, like you can’t just ask people for things in a certain way and have an expectation, you have to think what have you given first? Am I understanding that correctly? Do you agree with that?

Jamie Lafler

Yeah, of course. Funny as it is, just two days ago, I was catching up with one of my past interns. And he was actually the first intern that was mine, so to say, once I was a coach here in Dallas, and he’s stayed in touch with me throughout the past three and a half years, he was a great coach, he’s now possibly moving on to be a head coach at a university, which would be awesome for him. And he’s someone that again, has kept in touch and we are talking he’s like, Yeah, you know, how hard is it for you keeping up with all the interns that you’ve had, like, you’ve now been there for three and a half, four years. And I told him, I said, to be honest, I really don’t keep in touch with many of them, it depends on who keeps in touch with me. And that’s not saying that I’m on this high horse that I don’t need to reach out to other people, or to stay in touch with those that have worked underneath me because I’m a very humble person, I don’t see myself as being above anybody. But it’s like, okay, I’m a connection for you, we are a connection for you. While you were here, interning, this was a semester long job interview, which you may have done, well, you may not have done well, regardless of how you performed while you were here, we are a huge open door possibility for you. And if you close that door by not staying in touch with us, then that’s not on me that’s on you, you know where to find me, you know where I’ll be, you have my email, you have my phone numbers, etc. But if you don’t stay in touch, if you don’t keep up with that, if you just keep me on the back burner. I’m not going to be here, two years from now, etcetera. When you need my recommendation when you need my reference.

I had an intern actually from that same class three and a half years ago, who I had gotten a call about, he used me as a reference, which I wasn’t aware of. I got a call about him two years later asking, Hey, you know, what is this person like, what kind of coach is he? And I really didn’t have anything to say. So I’m sorry, this was two years ago that I work with this guy. I don’t know what he’s like. Now, I don’t even know where he is. I don’t even know where he lives. I don’t know what experiences he’s gained in the past two years, I’m sorry, but I can’t give you any accurate information. And therefore I don’t feel comfortable giving you any information. You know, I’m just not going to sit here and talk out of my butt and say this and that just to have something to say. You know, the interns that have kept up with me or the past coaches and whatnot. They’re people who I will speak for. They’re people who I really got a solid connection with while we work together and there are reasons for that. I would like to think of myself as a fairly good judge of character. And regardless of whether I like you or not being here at Exos is about getting better. It’s about giving and getting something in return. When it comes to our internship process As you know, the insurance, you’re here to learn and Exos work here, I’m here to build you up as a coach. And to make sure that you learn and you know what to do when you step out of these doors, you step out of these walls, and you now have to coach on your own, you know, my name is going to follow you, because I was your coach, I was your mentor, I was, you know, your internship coordinator. And I need to make sure that you are able to stand on your own. But again, if you go and close that door, if you willingly close that door, because you were, I don’t say lazy, but because you didn’t take the effort to keep that door open, you know, that’s not on me. So I think people need to really prioritize the people that they’ve met in the past and their connections and, keep those open and fresh. And Brett, I like you as a person, you’re awesome, you’re great, you know, we got along extremely well. And I care about you as an individual. And I think that’s really where it starts. You know, most of the time when we talk, I’m not asking you about hey, how’s work? Or hey, this question about, you know, this drill, or, you know, my programming, it’s about how you’re doing, it’s about you and your wife and how the dogs are and how’s the house, you know, that kind of thing, because that’s what I care about. And that’s, you know, what life’s foundation is built on. And so for me, it’s about keeping those relationships fresh. And that’s something that’s really hard for a lot of people, especially in our social media time that we’re in, when Oh, yeah, you know, I’m friends with this person, and I know what they’re doing in life, like, Oh, where did you see that? Did you talk to him? Oh, no, I sat on the timeline. Okay.

Brett Bartholomew

Yeah, it’s even happened. I had a friend call and a friend of mine and former mentor of mine works in the NFL. And he reached out, he said, Hey, do you know, so and so and this other guy that he was mentioning was a strength coach in the NFL. I think he had, like, gotten let go recently. And I said, You know what, I think he follows me on social media. And we’ve spoken a couple of times, but no, I couldn’t really say that I know him. And it’s interesting. Like, I asked him if he knew you, man, you know, he kind of gave this odd response, like you guys had known each other for a long time. And it’s always people need to be aware of this situation, you put others in, right? Like, in that circumstance, like somebody’s saying, they know me when maybe we’ve had one interaction. And then you find out like, oh, well, where did the conversation go, and it was somebody you know, of course, trying to, like, leverage something into us sounding like we were buddies, so they could get a job. And, and or the same thing with what you were mentioning, like somebody saying, Hey, you’re a reference, I’m not going to tell you your reference, and two years down the road, you really have to be it goes back to our key point, it’s not just about your skill set, or the years you put in, or the quote, unquote, grind, which that term needs to be abolished. It’s about the situations you put yourself and others in. And, you know, again, not having these transactional kind of one off, you know, kind of interactions, and you mentioned it well, you know, you talk about family and dogs, but even there’s people out there that would leverage that. They’d say, Okay, now if I just call somebody and ask them about their family, I’m doing you know what I mean? No, no, no, no, like, people, the type of people that you want, as references are going to have a very strong bullshit detector. And I don’t mean to use that term, you know, and be unprofessional. But one of the best pieces of advice I got when I was an intern, I got sat in this office, and a guy, you know, he told me, he said, excellence is self evident, and so is bullshit. He said, if you remember that the rest of your career, it’ll suit you. Well, he goes, now I don’t have a job for you right now. It was during the recession of 2008. He was I don’t have a job for you right now. He’s like, but if you follow that advice, and you approach your career in this relationships in the same way, he’s like, it’ll take care of itself. And I walked out of there and I’m like, that was awesome. I knew I walked in there hoping to get a job walked out of there, no job. This was before I went to the University of Nebraska and volunteered and later went and got my GA. And I also did you know, I did two unpaid internships and a graduate assistantship as well, but I walked out of there, Jack, because I had something tangible and tactful that I could use to kind of facilitate my approach the rest of the way. Was there advice that kind of like that anybody ever gave you? That still sticks with you today? I mean, I’m sure there’s a lot but is there one in particular that kind of sticks with you almost like a bad tattoo?

Jamie Lafler

Yeah, you actually said it to me. Um, when I so I had been looking into two different jobs with Exos. At the very end of my internship, the first one was a part time position there in Phoenix. I had actually already accepted a full time salaried position, doing athletic training at a different facility in the Scottsdale area, and it just, it was more of a stepping stone for me like a placeholder just in case. You know, I always like to make sure I have my ducks in a row. And that was kind of my stronghold in case things didn’t go as I wanted. But then, like something else came about, and that was the position here in Dallas. And I’d asked you, Brett, for a reference, okay, you know, can I put you down as a reference, which would be a recommendation for me. And you’re actually the one who picked up the phone and made the call over here to the Dallas facility. But I remember you said something to me to the extent of, if I give a recommendation for you, if you use me as a reference, my name is always going to be on your back. If you have a bad day. That’s representing me. If you go in and you have a bad session, that’s representing me because I’m the one who backed you up. And that has literally stuck with me to this day, if I’m having a bad day. I’m like, dammit, if Brett were to see me coach today, what would you say?

Brett Bartholomew

I will find, I will find you if you blow

Jamie Lafler

Yeah. And it seriously, it goes through my mind. You’re someone who I’ve always looked up to, I have always respected your your tenacity, and the grit that you have, and then how much you care and your passion. And that’s something that I’ve tried to follow and hold myself to that same kind of standard that I hold you to. And that seriously has stuck to me. I won’t say every day because I rarely have bad days, or that I’m feeling down. But that’s something that does still resonate with me.

Brett Bartholomew

No, I appreciate that. And you get the credit for taking it and doing something with it, you know, going back to the kind of the patients and the path and everything, you know, everybody feels some kind of pressure. And I agree with you, you know, none of us get in this field for the money. I do think that you I do think that we should not or we should be careful of, of thinking we cannot be great at our jobs and also provide for our families. I do think money’s important. But I think early on, especially like coaches just have to understand like, like med school, like law school, like people that have to go to the police academy, like the early stages are not going to be rich with rewards. You know, that doesn’t mean that, you know, but I just say that, because there’s a lot of coaches that want to run around grumbling later in their careers, like, we don’t do it for the money. It’s like a chant. But then they also wonder like, why nobody pays any of us? Well, it’s because like, oh, like, if I find out Jamie’s making 100,000 All teller boss, I do it for 40 As long as I get some free sweat shorts, you know, with logo on it. But what types of pressure, whether it was financial, whether it was psychological, whether it was your own kind of ego? Did you feel early on your path? Because a lot of the times you and I taught and I don’t mean to get personal here, but it was you were struggling with part time for a while and you had really done a lot. I mean, you were there was a lot of there were a lot of years there were you know, you were ready for more than they were given you and you had to kind of write it out. So what did you feel during that period?

Jamie Lafler

A lot of that was, well, there is a multifaceted thing there. Not a simple answer. A lot of that was me trying to hold myself to this unrealistic timeline I had put in place when I was like in high school. What you can’t do to yourself, I mean, people do that, like when you’re a kid, I go, Yeah, you know, I’m gonna get married when I’m 22. And I’m gonna have kids when I’m 25. And I’m gonna, you know, have a nice car and a nice house. And that’s, not how life works, maybe for some people, but I’m definitely not one of those people. I’m not someone who has ever wanted to settle with less than I know, I can achieve. You know, some people want a simple life and cool, good for them. That’s their life, that’s not my life. So I kept trying to hold myself to this timeline that I had put in place when I was younger. Okay, going to get my undergrad degree going to get my master’s degree and then expecting I would just walk into this, you know, 70 80k job, because I have a master’s degree and that’s not how it works, at least not in my profession. So I had to really reevaluate and be like, Okay, well, what is realistic, and a lot of that was the staff that I had at Arizona State, particularly the Sports Med staff who kept telling me a lot of whom are doctors and, have gone through a lot of schooling and have, you know, taken the slow road to get there. So, you know, Jamie, life isn’t a sprint, it’s a marathon. And as frustrating as it was to hear and as cliche as that saying is it’s true. You know, we can’t just speed through life expecting everything to happen. Boom, boom, boom, just because, you know, those are the signs on the road. Like, no, that’s not how it works. You know, it’s going to take time for things to occur. And again, if they’re not occurring ever, you need to reevaluate. Now, there’s a lot of cyclical things that keep coming up here. But that’s for a reason.

You know, I had been applying to athletic training jobs toward the end of my graduate assistantship there at Arizona State and nothing was really sticking. I’m like, Okay, well, what’s the issue? You know, is it because I’m applying to jobs that are way over my head? Is it because I don’t have the right references? Like, what is going on? And when I look back at things, it’s like, I didn’t ask for help. You know, I didn’t ask for people who I should have been asking for references, or I wasn’t looking to see who had connections at these places that could possibly have aided me in getting to where I wanted to go. And I’m not saying I regret doing what I did, because clearly, I’m extremely happy where I am. And this is where I need to be. But there are definitely some mistakes that I had made. And that was not asking for help. And I think that really could have made a big difference. But when it comes to, you know, realizing that you can’t just sprint through, I think that is what people need to understand. You know, I’ve had several interns who realize they weren’t happy at the age of 30 35 years old, and went back to school and got a degree in whether it be kinesiology or biomechanics, or what have you and came back and intern for me at the age of 35 36 years old. We have a coach that we hired on about a year ago, and he’s nearly 40. Then he was actually a client here at our facility and realized that man, I really love this, you know, yeah, he’d been doing a bit of personal training here and there, but this is where he felt at home. This is where he wanted to be. And that man with a family went back to school got a four year degree in kinesiology and here he is, he’s coaching for us. You know, is that where he thought he would be when he was 20 years old? Probably not. But you know, again, it’s never too late to make a change. It’s never too late to find what you’re really passionate about. And to put steps in place to accomplish those new goals that you might have.

Brett Bartholomew

Yeah, I think that’s all. You’re given really tactical kind of strategies, as opposed to just sound bites, which is important for people to take notes of one thing you mentioned earlier was likability. And, like authentic likability not trying to create some faux version of yourself, can you expand on likability a little bit more? And you could even give case studies, obviously, without using names or examples in your past where maybe you weren’t as self aware? What can people do? If they are that person? That means well, but me we seem to come off, like, arrogant or a dick, even if they’re not?

Jamie Lafler

That’s a good question. It’s a tough one. Okay, so Well, I’ll start with my mindset. So I’ve always been a people person. I’ve always loved talking, I can talk to anyone. And I think that’s a really important thing. Wherever you are, whether it’s say you work at a Lifetime Fitness, or you work in a completely different job, if you’re in an office setting, or if you work at McDonald’s. Talking to people talking to everyone is important. Whether it’s a customer or a janitor, or your boss, or CEO, or what have you. Building as many connections with different kinds of people is important. Learning how to interact with different kinds of people is important. Learning how to talk to people who might not speak the same language as you is important. And that’s where body language also really comes into play. Do you walk around like you’re puffed up? Like you’re about to go knock down some doors all the time? Or do you see more calm and relaxed and approachable? And I know body language gets into this whole entire other conversation.

Brett Bartholomew

But feel free to tap and you’re good to go.

Jamie Lafler

That’s what people see. First, they generally don’t hear you first. In my case, I am quite loud. And I laugh a lot. So people do tend to actually hear me before they see me. But a lot of times people visually you know, see you before they need you and your body language is going to say a lot. Whether you’re say in the weight room leaning against a machine like okay, that might not be the person that I want to be coached by if they look like they’re bored out of their mind or yeah, they’re there physically, but they might not be there mentally. Or is there someone who is walking around, you know, patting people on the back, you know, bright, cheery and happy by the way, it has a lot to play into that but bringing back a little bit to people who might not be likable or might not know how to be likeable. It comes to also making yourself uncomfortable because Okay, is this person? Are you possibly an introvert? Yes or no, it might not matter. I’ve also seen coaches who are quite introverted and are on the floor, you would have no idea they might seem like the most extroverted person. So a lot of it comes to like, not pigeon holing yourself into thinking that you’re some type of way and that you can’t grow outside of that, because there is always room for expansion of yourself. And of, you know, learning to be comfortable, you know, being uncomfortable. I know, that gets used a lot, but it’s real. I’m going to kind of go on to a real quick, different path. And I apologize, but I it does parallel.

So my brother, actually, the other day, was talking to me about some various TED talks, we’re always bouncing back and forth some good TED Talks that we’ve seen. And this one came up, that’s by Mel Robbins, she has a book and several TED talks about what’s called the Five second rule. And the five second rule is basically, if something pops into your head, you have about five seconds before you do some kind of action to instill that thought before it’s gone. And that could be like, Oh, I should text Brett. Well, if I don’t text Brent, or if I don’t go to walk toward my phone, or if I don’t write a note down, it says, Hey, Text, Brett is going to be gone. And circling back to some of that communication and staying in touch with people that comes into play a lot. Or say, if you’re at a conference, and someone got done speaking, or you saw Pat’s coworker or someone that you just want to meet, and you think, hey, you know, I should go up to that person to make a connection with them, oh, but maybe not five seconds passes, and it’s going to be gone. So she as much as she plays on, okay, hey, if something pops into your head, you need to get it out of your head and put it into action, you need to start taking steps in place to make that happen. You need to get past your feelings of oh, maybe I shouldn’t do that. Or, oh, maybe I’ll do that later. Because again, if your feelings get in the way, if five seconds goes by and you don’t put things into place, is probably not going to happen. And then coming back to that comfort zone, you need to get out of your comfort zone, and be a little uncomfortable, because you don’t know where those interactions where those actions that you could have passed up where they could lead you and what doors they could open. It was a really cool talk, if you just like Google or YouTube, Mel Robbins, five second rule, a bunch of videos and whatnot will pop up. But I was like, You know what? That’s true. There’s a lot of times like, oh, I should do this. Um, I’ll just do it later. And then it never happens getting done. And you know, that could be anything that could be me buying a book that I’ve been interested in, or that could be me going to work out like, oh, no, I’ll just work out later. And then it doesn’t get done, or, Oh, I really need to email this person about something. I’ll email them later. And then of course, it doesn’t happen. So that was something I really, really liked. The like, Okay, this could open more doors for you, you know, this could lead places that that you don’t really foresee.

Brett Bartholomew

There’s a lot I want to attack with that I want one of the things that really stood out with me and is your whole approach. And this is something I put in my the field guide that if anybody’s interested in you can you can download this completely for free from my website at brettbartholomew.net. But talking with different people having discussions, I mean, we have activities on there, I think there’s two field guides total one both come with the course. But the one I’m talking about, like, it talks about like identifying different archetypes, having discussions without a defined end goal, like just literally engaging in the discussion with strangers to kind of see where that goes. And I remember that something that I tried doing a lot and there was an intern assignment that, I’ve given a lot in the past is you have to have 10 to I call the 10 Strangers, you have to have 10 discussions with 10 Strangers, whether you see them at the supermarket, whether you see them at the in the training facility, but like it has to be an actual stranger. And the goal is not It’s not a goal to you know, get this or get back the goal is just that the conversation in and of itself, right, keep it going for five to 10 minutes, we usually did 10 and 10. So have a 10 minute discussion with 10 strangers and just try to adapt, you know whether that person looks super extroverted, whether that person is you know, mumbling to themselves on a street corner, you know, like go well be you know, be discerning there. I’m joking. I always have to remember like, some people may not get my really bad humor, but, you know, find somebody just start up a discussion and see how long you keep keep going because that’s social agility blends into so many other things in life. And when we say likability, I mean people kind of want to be like, Well, I don’t feel like you know, we get enough people in the field that can kind of schmooze and charm. But it’s just a fact that you know, a certification and an internship. And your degree isn’t enough. Like, it’s largely a matter of increasing your employability is largely a matter of, like you said, developing unique skill set, have a creative approach. And yeah, like even timing and likeability do play a role. So engaging with other people, embracing other cultures, getting outside of yourself in as many ways as possible, can help with that, whether you like it or not, there’s an inherent discomfort. Yeah, I just think that was a key point.

And, for you, what role did even timing play? Because we talked about patients, and that can be kind of ambiguous. And you said, Well, I know a lot of people have this kind of preset goal in mind, if I need to get married here, I need to get when you did start to make more movement in your career, what did you notice about the timing of that? What advice can you give somebody about, hey, maybe if even if you’re looking for a raise? I probably don’t ask for that. In November, December, when, you know, most places are usually already setting their budgets for the new year. And that conversation has been had, right? Is there any other lessons on timing that you’d care to pass along?

Jamie Lafler

Um, you know, some of that you just can’t control you really can’t I got very lucky it is hard for people, I got very lucky with what happened with me, the position in Dallas open because we had opened another facility. So the current part time coach was leaving to go to a different facility. And so I filled his role. And so that was a part time position than the full time position ended up opening, because the two full time coaches that were here in Dallas, both left for positions in the NFL the same week. And I never would have foreseen it happening. It was a, you know, huge opportunity for the both of them. And I’m very happy with, you know, what they decided to do. Having those connections is great. And having learned from them was great. And of course, it opened the door for me to step in and to cement myself for the time being here. one of my recent part time coaches, he was an intern of mine, I actually hired him for his internship and have got to work with him and see him grow and be a big part of his development. He had really been struggling with timing with being part time and with being frustrated about it. And we kept talking to him, okay, see how many doors you can open, see what other areas of this company that you can work into, to make yourself really well rounded. And he did that. And it ended up leading to a full time position for him that he just started about two weeks ago. But for myself, that’s something that I really did as well. There’s a quote by Tina Fey, good old Tina Fey. And she says, you’ll say yes, yeah. She says, you know, say yes, and figure it out later, say yes to opportunities that come your way. And if at that time, you might not know how you’re gonna get it done, we’ll figure it out. You know, when I was part time, I made sure that I made myself a commodity that if I was gone, people would notice. And regardless if that was within my facility, or within my greater company, as a whole, that if I was gone, people were going to know that I was gone, and they’re gonna miss my presence. I got really big into our internship, whether it was being our internship coordinator, or being the internship manager, who I hired interns for several semesters, I played a big role in assisting with you know, getting our internship process going and cleaning some things up that had kind of been left to the wayside for a while. And, I talked with a lot of people during that time, whether it was applicants, whether it was other people within Exos, who I wouldn’t have talked to otherwise. And I have those connections now that I can continue, I do continue talking to those people and working with them. And that’s something that had to be like, No, you know, I enjoy my free time more than I enjoy this possibility of expanding my career expanding my role. And I said yes, and I made it work. I worked a ton of hours. I did a lot of things that I might not want to to have done at that point but it gave me more experience and I can now say I have experienced in hiring people I have experienced in managing people and I wouldn’t have you know had that had I said no.

I have worked a lot with our social media people. Here at the my company. I love taking pictures doing sports photography is a Hobbie that I’ve had for a long time, and it was a no brainer for me to go ahead and continue that here. That’s not usually a role that a coach has within our facilities. But I was like hell, I’m the best one here who knows how to use a camera. So I’m going to bring my own personal camera to work, and I’m going to make it happen. Again, that’s extra time. For me, that’s extra time at home in the evenings, editing pictures, getting them sent, where they need to be getting uploaded, etc, etc. But now again, I have this additional hat that I can put on that, you know, I can wear and use. And it’s something that I also love to do. There’s numerous things that I could continue touching on of how, you know, I’ve continued to open doors for myself and stuck my foot here and there and made these connections. But I think that’s important for young coaches to keep in mind is, again, you don’t want to pigeonhole yourself in this one specialty, you should be able to do other things, whether that is, work on your company’s marketing, or help get their name out in the community, or if that’s sitting at the front desk, and greeting people when they walk in, because maybe your front desk person was sick that day, or maybe you just haven’t hired one yet, that could be helping with the trash in the evenings. And people being like, man, you know, that person really goes out of their way to help the rest of us, you know, hats off to them, there’s so many more things you can do to make yourself a commodity that will help pay off that culture that was talking about a little bit ago. You know, he was obviously coaching, but he also took on a role of helping with some of our marketing and, signing people up and talking on the phone and getting people in the doors. And that’s a lot of what his new role is also going to entail. So you know, he took on those extra hours, he, put away some of his free time, he put away some of the time that he could have been working a part time job somewhere else to be here and to grow himself in as many ways as you could and look at he moved off to Colorado, and it’s out there in the world all by himself. And I’m really happy for him for doing that. But people again, need to realize, branch out, make yourself a commodity, you know, make people realize when you’re not there,

Brett Bartholomew

and branching out like I think it’s to complement what you’re talking about. People always say, Well, I’m going to stand out, I need to find someone to stand out. No, no, no branch out, don’t stand out. And that leads into the next question I was going to ask you as you’ve continued to grow, not only within the company, but in general, as a professional, what are some of the most common mistakes you notice? young coaches, interns, young professionals in general making, as it pertains to them trying too hard to stand out? What are they doing that? if you could see yourself from my vantage point, you would realize you’re about to crash and burn.

Jamie Lafler

A lot of people, a lot of young coaches, a lot of interns, rather than getting say a better argument or having better things to say they just say it louder. Which isn’t always the best idea, you don’t want to shout something very loudly that is it a good idea rather than saying something that’s quite smart, but with a low voice. So thinking about what you’re saying and thinking about what your purpose is and making sure that you’re fulfilling that purpose in that role. There’s something to be said for grit. And I feel like that is something that you don’t see too much of with our younger interns that are coming in are younger coaches. Hard work isn’t something you can make someone do like you know, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink you can hire someone but you can’t make them work hard. That’s something that comes from inside that’s an internal drive and internal passion that you can’t make someone have so what we’ll get a lot of these young coaches in that just don’t really know what they want, which is fine. You know, that’s a big part of internships. So graduate assistantships is helping people you know, grow into what they want to become. But a lot of them will come in here and just be loud and just try to bully their way into having an active role in coaching. And that’s not the best way to go about it. You have to have you know, a purposeful, passionate presence almost, for people to listen to you and to be like, okay, you know, I can give this person more responsibilities because I can see that they’re practicing I can see that they want to be here I can see that they have no this inner desire to learn this inner drive and that’s something that doesn’t always take you speaking to be able to see a lot of mistakes that are also being made, you know, it’s with social media, the social media has really changed our world. You know, it’s something I’ll talk about frequently. It’s like man you met are like your first Facebook account? Like, how Brett How old were you when you got Facebook?

Brett Bartholomew

Well, originally, and thankfully I was in college, and that was when Facebook just started. So Facebook was in its first true rendition where you actually had to be a university student when I was in Kansas State in 2004. And then that account got hacked before I graduated. So I never really had to worry about, you know, one, I didn’t really post, you know, stupid college videos or pictures up there, you know, but two if I did, thankfully, they all wouldn’t gotten a raise, because Facebook deleted that account. Now, the irony is I very rarely use Facebook anymore. But yeah, 2000 Right. So I would have been 18 or 19.

Jamie Lafler

Yeah, yeah. So I got it 2004, as well as a freshman in high school. But think of how much the world has changed since then. And because of the advent of social media. It’s, so different. And it’s crazy to think, you know, where are we going to be in another 15 20 years with the continuation of social media. But a lot of young coaches like to just hop on social media, whether it be their Instagram, or their Twitter, whatever, just post to post just put things out there because they feel like they need to, because maybe they watched, I don’t know, a blog post or something that said, Hey, if you’re not posting, if you’re not staying relevant, people aren’t going to forget about you. Well, again, it comes back to the quality of what you’re saying, and not how loud you’re saying it or not the quantity of what you’re putting out. Again, I’ve done a lot of the hiring for interns in the past, and if people always ask me, Oh, do you look at their Facebook? You know, sometimes I do sometimes I do reach out and say, Okay, well, what is this person doing? Especially, they’re kind of on the bubble, if they’re on the cusp of, do I want to hire this person or not. And you got to be smart about what you put out there. It because it’s in some way, it’s always going to be out there. And it’s always going to be found. This comes into, again, a whole different conversation of talking about social media and smart ways to use it and to utilize it. And for me, being a female, there are even different ways to talk about that conversation. But being tactful, being humble, and being smart about what you put out is important. Not just pulling things from coaches that you see that might look fancy, that you’d like to say might look sexy, but that are tried and true exercises that are tried and true techniques that really are going to work well with various populations. And that you’re not just putting things out there like to do it.

Brett Bartholomew

Nobody wants to like toot their own horn, but nobody wants to struggle. And I want to hear about what you’re doing with a lot of your insurance. But I even want to get into the inevitable conversation of the gender gap within s&c Because that plays a role and in those things as well. And I’d be interested to see how you’ve continued to navigate that because whether we want to talk about it or not. it’s an issue in every field s&c is not special, you know, but hearing from somebody like you as to the approach you you’ve taken towards it and how you’ve avoided kind of, letting it get the best of you or making you kind of over I find some people and this is them saying it like it’s kind of put a chip on their shoulder. So could you go into that I again, like and follow up with what you were saying with what you do with your insurance. But I think that’s fascinating to hear about as well.

Jamie Lafler

Yeah, this is, it’s something I get asked a lot, especially by a male. He’s like, Hey, how are you here? How did you get where you’re at? Like you’re a female and you made it this far, like it’s really mind boggling. For me, I grew up in a very diverse family. extremely diverse and being a male or being a female wasn’t important. It was you know, what are you capable of? And what are you doing to fulfill your true potential? You know, are you studying? Are you going to school? Are you trying your hardest Are you passionate, are you happy, etc. So there’s so many more things growing up that were important than if I was a male or if I was a female, or if I was, you know, somewhere in between it doesn’t matter in my family doesn’t matter to me. What I run into a lot, especially at say courses or workshops or different events is I’m disregarded. If I’m with say a fellow coach, if I’m with a male coach, or if I’m you know, out to whatever, a lot of people think that I’m like the girlfriend, or that I am just like somehow oddly related to this person, but that I’m not there for myself. And that really irritates me. there was an example I was with a fellow coach. He’s a guy. And we were visiting a different facility. And he knew people who were there, but I didn’t. I was meeting people and the men, the male coaches were just shaking my hand and looking away from me. I can’t Hi, I’m Jamie and I don’t like to toot my horn. That’s not me. So I don’t tend to introduce myself, as you know. Hi, I’m Jamie Lafleur. I’m a performance coach at Exos in Dallas. So that’s, that’s not what I say. Like, I’m Jamie, I have my own identity. And I like to keep that said, introduce myself. Hi, Jamie. And they’re like, oh, okay, nice to meet you. And then the conversation would be completely directed to the band that I was fit. And that’s something that I run into all the time. Or I’m asked, you know, oh, are you an intern here? When someone comes to the facility? Or are you one of the therapists, there’s nothing wrong with being an intern, there’s nothing wrong with being a therapist, I am actually a certified athletic trainer. So technically, yes, I can answer that in a positive response. But they just automatically assume that because I’m a female, I’m not a coach here in the facility. And when it comes to all of that, I can’t really blame that on the person themself. It’s the culture that we’re in. It’s a huge culture of bias and double standards. It’s a culture that we’re definitely improving upon that we’re working on. But it’s a slow and steady progress. And if you go back in time, and look at our history, you know, prohibition and women’s rights, and civil rights, and etc, etc. It wasn’t that long ago, you know, women were just able to vote, what, 75 years ago, that’s insane. If you look at other countries, I have a current athlete who is from the Middle East. And she left the Middle East because she had no rights there. And her country, the women just were given the right to drive two years ago, they were just given the right to vote this year. So when you take into consideration, what’s happening around the world, we are very privileged here in the United States. And I realized that and I take that into account. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that what’s happening here makes it okay,

Brett Bartholomew

no, well, and just to jump in real quick, because it’s not, there are a lot of people that listen from around the world. And it’s definitely not just the United States thing, like we were in. I was in Portugal, speaking earlier this year. And it was a conference really well done. One of the best conferences I’ve been a part of, and there were 350 participants for women. And that, that’s hard. and when I’ve talked about before, on my podcast, a good friend of mine, Carmen bot, you know, she gets annoyed when people are like, listen, like when people ask her, What’s it like being a female strength coach, and she’s like, I’m a strength coach, like. She’s right, like, and I tell her like, listen, you’re right. But like what people are, I think what people are saying when they ask that they don’t know how they’re coming across. They’re just trying to get some tips. You know what I mean? It’s, hard, because I’ll get people that will ask me something. I had somebody one time that goes, Oh, you used to work at athlete’s performance, like you guys don’t do your own programming to you? And I said, Excuse me. And he was like, Well, yeah, like I heard, Mark, and all these people do your programming for you, and you guys just implement it. And it was really interesting, because nobody had ever asked me this when I worked for the company. But when I got out, and I realized that everybody had these interesting, preconceptions, and they said, Well, what we’ve always heard about, coaches there is that they’re really good if somebody gives them a program, but if it has to be Plan B, or C, you know, they fail. And I’m like, where are people getting this information? Like, we all have our own programming, like, take place on a common template, just like it would if you worked at the University of, you know, Nebraska, or Iowa, or the Houston Texans, or what have you, there’s synchronicity, but you do your own programming. And so I you see it terribly offended at that in the same way likely that Carmen did when people would ask her about being a female strength coach, and then I realized, like, people don’t know, like, people have no idea what they’re asking how it comes across often, like, what they’re really asking is something else, and or they’re trying to vet you, you know, I know, for me, it was people trying to vet like, you know, you speak on coaching a lot are you who you say you are and it’s like, dude, all right, you want to have like a programming battle. Let’s go like, what are you wanting, like strength and conditioning has basically become battle rap. It’s really on. So I think you do a good job of kind of handling that gracefully and just knowing Okay, and that’s social intelligence. I know what you’re really trying to ask. And even though you’re asking in a really crappy way, I’ll give you the time of day and that speaks to your professionalism.

Jamie Lafler

A lot of what it comes down to is so I, just touched on ego very briefly a little bit ago, but it’s me, putting my ego aside and realizing okay, I live in a world of double standards, especially within strength conditioning. And there are certain battles that I need to pick and there are ones that I need to, put aside and just say, okay, I’ll get there later, I have a while to work on different battles. But when it comes to being a female, I have to think about how do I come across to other people? What is my body language saying, If I sit on the ground a ton, when I’m talking with my athletes, if my athlete is on the ground foam rolling, my butt is on the ground right next to them talking. I’m a very touchy person. I Give everyone a pat on the back. If I’m walking past you Sure. I’m going to smack you on the leg, say, Hey, what’s up? How you doing? But I have to keep in mind, who I’m touching? Is it an athlete? Is it someone that I have a good relationship with? That’s just part of, how I communicate with people isn’t that tactile way. But again, I have to keep in mind, you know, if someone was watching my session, and they don’t know me, what would they be thinking? What am I wearing that day? How is that outfit gonna come across to other people? Are my shorts too short? Is my shirt tucked in? Right? It? How’s my ponytail? Is my ponytail look okay, or does it look sloppy? those are things that a male coach won’t necessarily have to keep in the back of their head.

You know, when I first started in this company, I was in a facility where you wearing yoga pants was the norm. And I didn’t think anything of it, that’s some people’s culture. That’s, other facilities might not be their culture. And when I came out to my new facility, no one wore yoga pants, but I did, because that’s what I was used to. And that was something that I was literally sat down by a fellow a female coach, She’s someone I look up to immensely. And she said to me, this might not be the best thing to wear, you might want to reconsider your outfit, just because the people you’re working with, at that time, it was common season. You know, they’re not as mature as you are, for you, it’s just an outfit, but for them, they might see it a different way. And as much as that pissed me off, not because of what she was saying, but because that that was the truth. I was like, Okay, I need to look at what I have in my closet, I need to reconsider what I wear into work. And so wearing athletic shorts, wearing athletic pants is what I then moved into doing rather than yoga pants, because I can’t wear that and be taken seriously by some people. And that comes back to our broader culture. It’s not necessarily what someone wears, but it’s that perception that other people have that person. So as does that mean that me that Jamie is making mistake, not necessarily, but I can’t be here and do exactly what I want to do. Because I don’t know, in this business, this is not my thing. I have to keep in mind social norms, I have to keep in mind the double standard that I’m held to, and make sure that I am fitting within our society. But yet, finding that balance that I am still happy within it. And that comes to you. I talked about social media a little bit ago, that comes to my social media. About a year ago, I sat down with a fellow coach of mine who I really look up to as well. And he’s like, Jamie, what are you doing with your Instagram? Like, what is it? It doesn’t make sense? Like, is it a personal profile? Is it a professional profile? Like what is it and that’s that point, I had been really resisted to just making a professional Instagram, because I was like, I’m more than just a coach, I have so much more than just a coach and I personally see that there is much more to life than work. And that’s something that I don’t want to lose. But then I had to say, okay, Jamie, pull your head out of your ass, get over yourself. If you want to further yourself as a professional, you’re gonna need to change some things. And I did. And I don’t want to talk about like follower numbers or anything like that. But I have made a very different change and gone in a very different direction with my social media. And it has definitely helped me as a professional. It’s so rewarding, getting people messaging me and saying, thank you for putting out informational videos. Thank you for taking the time to educate me on these topics when you didn’t have to.

I had had an athlete this summer, who was a rookie going into the NBA. And he had some injuries going on. And so I was in contact with his new sports performance coach of the team that was interested in him. That’s currently where he’s at now. And you were talking about the athlete like, this is what I’ve got. I’m doing right now. I know he has held back on these things. this is where I plan for him to go. What are you thinking etcetera, etcetera. And the coach, he says to me, where are your goals? As far as sports performance concerning what are you looking to do? And he told me, I would love to get into the NFL, I’d love to get into the NBA and currently basketball is kind of my thing. Within my current company, I was like, okay, tell me a little bit more as I get, the NBA, I’ve got my athletic training certification. You know, I mentioned the conditioning coach, that makes me really well rounded. And I know, that’s kind of what the NBA looks for. It says, I saw your social media, and I really liked what you’re doing, I really like what you stand for. And I like your thought processes on things. And I like, how much you try to build other people up and educate people on that, you know, really put it on my radar, send me your, your resume, and I want to make sure that we have your name on our list. I’m like, damn, all that happened. Because I sat down at dinner with a fellow coach, he was like, Jamie, get your Instagram together. And I did. And not to say that it was that easy. But, I have to remember, I could have no X amount of followers, if I posted in a certain way. But what is that really going to do for me, I’m not about posting pictures of me going out at night or posting pictures of me on the beach or posting, this or that that’s not who I am. It’s who I could be if I wanted, but I realized professionally, that’s not how I want to come off. That’s not the first perception I want people to have of me, I have a lot of athletes, a lot of agents who reach out to me on Instagram, who I then you know, go ahead and give to the people that they need to talk to. But if the first perception they were to have of me was okay, here’s Jamie coaching, here’s Jamie teaching, this is Jamie working with this athlete. Oh, here’s Jamie on the beach. Like, that’s not how I want an agent to see me before they even meet me. people could do whatever they want to do in a live and let live is one of my main mantras in life. But I’ve realized that for myself that if I want to continue to grow and to further myself, and to get where I want to be that that’s how I’m going to have to present myself and that’s how I want to present myself. And that’s a huge thing for people in general to listen to you. And not just females, not just coaches, whatever. Your social media plays a huge part in your life these days, whether you want it to or not. And it’s come to a point where if like, someone doesn’t have social media, you’re like, what, what do you mean? Are you okay? Like, is there a reason that you don’t?

Brett Bartholomew

It’s just to jump in here real quick. it’s less even about social media and more because this it’s interesting. Social media has come up in at least three or four episodes, even if that hasn’t been the primary topic. And I think that happens one because it’s the world we live in right now. But people may very well listen to this podcast at a time where Facebook Instagram and Twitter are now obsolete. So keeping in mind that whatever medium what Jamie’s talking about here is the story you tell about yourself and that being backed up by you how you actually are and I think that that’s why it comes up as a recurring theme because people don’t want to admit that branding and things like that matter because they don’t like the term branding means to mark something indelibly look it up, if you look at branding, it means to mark something indelibly and what you’re trying to do is show just a reflection of who you truly are. And this is how it is. So even if you’re somebody listening to this, and there are a lot of people out there like this that are like I’ll never get on social media, I’ll never have an internet presence. I’m too busy. I’m too this I’m like, which always is confounding to me because you have people like Elon Musk, or you have Richard Branson or you have all these other people that seem to have time to connect with their audience and colleagues and social media but somehow strength coaches are high horse. So that’s fine, but you fall victim to this as well. It’s an issue it’s something that we talked about again and in an online course and resource that I put together because this stuff wasn’t talked about everything like financial struggles and strategies, branding, like just just all the misconceptions of what we have. And so what you’re talking about is Be mindful of how you present yourself

so as we wrap up, Jamie like people want to get a hold of you or people like hey, you talked about a certain topic Jaime and I want to get a little bit deeper down that rabbit hole how can they reach out to you to discuss these things with you and learn from you because you definitely have a lot of information to share and and I think you’re a natural mentor.

Jamie Lafler

I do what I can. Well there is of course my Instagram I do not have Twitter and I never get on Facebook. And my Instagram is Coach Jaimie I name is spelt J a i m i e so Jaimie like two i’s like my face, and then my email, you guys are welcome to reach out to me on my email as well. It’s jlaflerafleur@teammatzos.com, that spelled l a f, L E R@teammatzos.com. I nearly always do my phone unless I’m on the floor coaching, I’m pretty good about getting back to people, I make that a point. Because again, I want to give back and help build other people up. Because there have definitely been people who have done that for me, throughout my life and my tenure here as a coach. And I realized that as much as I can help other people, other people can continue to help me and I want to be able to learn it’s always a two way street when it comes to that. So yeah, feel free to reach out and you know, I’ll do what I can to answer your questions into to help better others.

Brett Bartholomew

I appreciate that. And guys, I’m you know, I feel bad because I have to cut you know, Jamie off, but we could, this is why we want to be respectful of your time. And this is why we bring some folks on to do part two. And so just keeping these things in mind, running back through the list and the gamut of things that Jamie has talked about the understanding of, purposeful patience, managing your approach, not just your skill set, being considerate of others, not aggrandizing your struggle because other fields and people are going through these things as well. So you’re grinding it out or complaining isn’t going to help anybody, like our fields not special. And that’s what I think is unique about the art of coaching podcast is there’s a lot of people that listen to it from a lot of fields. And we’re getting out of our silo a little bit because we talked about how teams can get in silos, but it’s time not just to learn from other professions, but to connect and interact with them because our journeys are far more similar than they are different.

Jamie, I wanted to thank you again, I’m really proud of you. I know that you are very happily employed and rightfully so but you are somebody that I always feel competent, giving a recommendation to so as long as you don’t become somebody that we’re recording this now in 2018. So don’t make the same mistake Jamie with me now saying that I’m not reaching out until 2021. Same thing that’s fair. Thank you again for your time and have a great rest of the day.

Jamie Lafler

Yeah, you as well. Appreciate it.

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